INDC: Americans want Fallujah to succeed, to be a successful city, because it's in the American interest. What do you think needs to happen to make this possible?

Yusef: "The last few years when the fight started in Fallujah ... the insurgency, whatever you call them, the resistance against the American occupation in Iraq, it was here, everything started here. It was one of the first cities to fight against the Americans, and since that history it has had that name, that reputation that this city is the best, with the most heroes who fought the Americans. And even if you ask the insurgents which city they would prefer to be fighting from, Fallujah or Baghdad, they choose here. Now everybody knows Fallujah in Iraq, that it is the capital of the heroes who fought the Americans. If the insurgents can get back into the city again, it's going to be a bigger fight than the two battles that happened here earlier. The next battle is going to be tough, tougher than the day the Americans themselves entered Iraq, crossed the borders."

"Working honestly, the way we look at it, we are looking out for the city, and the country after. We are not working for the (Iraqi) government, nor for Americans. To achieve success is not for the government or the Americans, it is for the city itself. I will go to the tribes to ask them - and the answer is 'yes' - if you want the Americans to leave the city, if you want the Iraqi Army to leave the city, we need to work together. To work to protect Fallujah from any insurgents trying to get into the city again."

INDC: So aren't most of the tribes already on the side of law and order in al-Anbar and Fallujah particularly? It's been reported that the majority of Anbar tribes have declared war on the umbrella group of radicals in the province ...

Yusef: "That's true in al-Anbar yes, but here in Fallujah (the local tribes) are not here yet. In al-Anbar yes, I'm not sure of the number."

INDC: So the tribes in Fallujah are not on board yet.

Yusef: "[Soon] we will meet with the tribes. We will meet them and we will tell them the same thing I told you, 'you know what, if you want the Americans and the IA's to leave, the citizens of Fallujah are going to have to take over the city and protect it from insurgency activities.' If they say yes we're going to say we need to work together, you need to get your tribesmen to join the police [and local government]. And fight side by side with us."

INDC: Who is the insurgency? Who are the people who plant bombs every day and shoot at Americans, IA and police?

Yusef: "They have some ideology from some of the American prisons, the one in Bucca and south, in those two prisons there were extremist religious insurgents. The Americans took those people and put them in the prison too and they (the radicals) worked on the other prisoners, teaching them and feeding them that ideology of fighting and to think that everyone else is a sinner and that they should be killed."

Note: I spoke to a Marine Detention Facility Officer intimately familiar with the mentioned corrections facilities, and he verified this characterization; young Iraqis on the fence are often radicalized there, initially associating with fundamentalists as a survival mechanism.

INDC: So the majority of the insurgency here is religious radicals?

Yusef: "People in Iraq fighting, they are kids. They have no knowledge, they are ignorant from both sides, about their religion and education-wise. They (the radicals) buy them with money, so why not? Some guys who work with insurgents and start killing people, when they begin and kill one, they cannot leave."

INDC: What do you mean, they can't stop killing?

The interpreter explains: "It's like when you join a gang in the states. Once you do something, that's it, you cannot leave."

INDC: So the religious radicals are paying young people to join these gangs

Yusef: "From Fallujah to the city of Abu Ghraib, the radicals control everything. Gas stations, power, contracts and, believe it or not, contracts with the Americans themselves. The Americans give a contract to someone and the insurgents extort their share. This is how they finance their operations. An oil distribution facility in al-Anbar, believe it or not, half of its production goes to those radicals and to finance insurgency activities. A Fallujah judge doesn't dare to judge someone. He's too scared. He's been threatened and he has no power to protect himself."

INDC: So how did the insurgents take control of these contracts and the city functions?

Yusef: "They don't do the actual work. They come with money. They find the contractor. That contractor is an innocent person, he is not involved with anything and most all of them now, they are from Baghdad. Like there are some Fallujans, they do their contracts in Baghdad because it's too dangerous to be here, so most all contractors (coming to work in Fallujah) come from Baghdad. The contractor gets the contract, he shows up here in Fallujah to do the job. He starts planning, getting equipment. The insurgents find out about him, they show up, and they tell him, 'you know what, either we get a portion of that amount or you are not finishing it.'"

INDC: It's like the mafia in America.

Yusef: "Yes. So what choice does the contractor have? He's going to be killed anyway, so he's going to accept that deal. He's going to finish the contract, take half the money, and give the insurgent the other half."

INDC: So it all runs on violence and intimidation.

Yusef: "Exactly. Like for a construction worker to do a job here, if he walks in [and is associated with Americans, police or IA], he'll be killed when he leaves."

We then discussed my camera, and whether I was going to take his picture. All Iraqis in civil positions shun pictures and cover their faces in public, lest the revelation of their identity cause them and their families to be killed.

Yusef: "Go ahead and take my picture, I'm not afraid, I've lost everything in Iraq. (al Qaeda) killed my family, they killed my father in one spot, they killed my brother. They chopped my brother's head off. So there is no more to lose."

INDC: But don't you fear for your own life?

Yusef: "No. If you want picture of me go ahead, put it wherever you want."

(I declined)

INDC: If everything runs on violence and intimidation, and that's what people respect in Fallujah, what can we do, and what can the tribes do, practically, to take that power back?

Yusef: "If the tribes will work with us honestly, we can do something about it. But honestly, the tribes let us down."

INDC: How do they let you down?

Yusef: "They do work with the insurgents. When they sit with us, they tell us one version of the story, when they sit with the insurgents, there is another version of the same story."

INDC: So how do you gauge the chances of success of getting the tribes to stop being two-faced and start looking out for law and order in Fallujah?

Yusef: "The tribes will follow, they will be on the side of the powerful person, the powerful group. If we have that power, they're going to be on our side. Right now the insurgents are more powerful, so they are going to be on their side."

INDC: So how do you get that power?

Yusef: "More Iraqi Police. If [Fallujah] recruits more police, it is a good thing, that means we'll get that power, and at that point tribal leaders will be on our side."

INDC: What are your plans to make this happen?

Yusef: "It's going to depend on an upcoming meeting [with] tribal leaders. This is key, I believe, to use it to get into their mentality and convince them to be on our side. [They need to be told] about Marines leaving, Iraqi Army leaving, if the sons of Fallujah will provide security and work with the police."

"If their answer is yes, start sending tribe members to join the police service and the Iraqi Army in Fallujah. If you want the Marines and the (predominantly Shia) Iraqi Army to stay in the city, that's your choice, but you need to be responsible for it. Let's not waste our time standing here and talking. Either yes, the sons of Fallujah will take over, or if the answer is no, end this meeting."

INDC: What if they say 'no?'

Yusef: "[There will be] one option: [government forces] from Baghdad. And they're not [like local forces], it's really kind of [special forces] from Baghdad. But the local Sunni hate them (as they are predominantly Shia), and the members of that team will treat Fallujans terribly."

INDC: Why did you decide to [work to quell the insurgency]?

Yusef: "Because I found that this is going to be the best solution to serve my city and my country."

He then said that he'd like to tell me two things, but warned me that one may anger Americans, and he hoped they didn't get upset.

Yusef: "Through my [experience as an enemy], the way I look at Americans, I look at them and feel like they are occupiers, occupying my country when the invasion happened. But when other parties showed up - especially the radicals and the Iranian militias, both who are not Iraqis - now I prefer the Americans. I've met [various Americans working for Fallujah]. It is my feeling that [they are] working hard, and (before I knew) you (Americans) I had a different image. Now that I know the Americans, I have a different impression. Now I deal honestly with them and feel they are really working for the benefit of my side."

"I think the Americans are more for Iraq than the Iraqis themselves."

He then moved on to his second point.

Yusef: "I want to ask you for something: a one month vacation in the United States to get away from all of this. And if they give me refugee status, I'm marrying an American woman and not coming back."

He laughed.

***


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