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« (UPDATED) | Main | Quick Links » February 01, 2006
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Posted by Bill Plus, you'd be surprised at how hard it is to write new political metaphors using squirrels. Though Dave Price makes it look easy ... UPDATE: All joking aside - piss off, Tom Toles. Posted by Bill at February 1, 2006 02:27 PM | TrackBack (3) Trackback PingsTrackBack URL for this entry: CommentsI gave it a shot, though. Posted by: TallDave at February 1, 2006 02:40 PM Oh sh!t. TallDave is Dave Price from Dean's World? How the !@$%* did I miss that? I gotta get the Doc to lower my Klonopin. Posted by: Robb Allen (Sharp as a Marble) at February 1, 2006 03:32 PM Bill, you seem like an intelligent person so help me out. What is so offensive about that Toles cartoon? Posted by: seriously at February 2, 2006 01:20 AM Well, I suppose if you're asking, it's probably useless trying to explain. But here goes: he's using the image of soldiers that have been maimed as a metaphorical device to illustrate the concept that the military has been broken. The message is fine, and certainly within the expected repertoire of an editorial cartoonist, but the particular imagery of a soldier that has lost limbs is specifically inappropriate given the high rate of personnel that have lost legs, arms or both from IED's in this war. It's inflammatory. And - I'm not sure that having an offended reaction to the artwork is a sign of intelligence or lack of intelligence, so help me out: why do you need it explained to you, and what exactly does my intelligence have to do with being offended by the cartoon? What, only trogdolytes have sensibilities that are insulted by a smug cartoonist making his acerbic political point off of the backs of soldiers that have lost limbs? Color me stupid, please. Posted by: Bill from INDC at February 2, 2006 02:08 AM Sorry, I'm still not getting it. What's inappropriate about the maimed soldier imagery? Rumsfeld's callous reaction to the soldier is the point of the cartoon; the soldier doesn't seem in any way to be a figure of fun. Posted by: seriously at February 2, 2006 06:26 AM Well, the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff seem to find the cartoon offensive; enough so to have all of them sign a letter to the editor. That is a very rare occurrence. Posted by: rbj at February 2, 2006 08:46 AM it is interesting to see how folks are reacting to this cartoon. i find it ironic that the joint chiefs see the cartoon as an attack on the troops, when the cartoon is really a quite vicious attack on them. i know there have been cartoons about the war depicting coffins of U.S. soldiers. is that less offensive, or more? Posted by: milowent at February 2, 2006 10:13 AM Seriously, You don't seem like a very intelligent person. Posted by: corvan at February 2, 2006 10:14 AM It seems to me you ought to be able to make your biting political commentary ripping the military hierarchy without exploiting quadruple amputees. There's a tradeoff you make between deliberately shocking readers and getting your point across and this cartoon, because it violates a kind of trust not to exploit severely handicapped soldiers, wastes any opportunity to get it's point across. It just pisses people off. Posted by: spongeworthy at February 2, 2006 11:00 AM Spongeworthy, I appreciate your response, but I don't see what's "shocking" about the 'toon. The reader's sympathies are clearly intended to lie with the disfigured soldier; it's Rumsfeld and the Joint Chiefs who are being criticised, as milowent notes. Posted by: seriously at February 2, 2006 11:12 AM And the troops - via the particularly inflammatory imagery of quadruple amputees - are portrayed as "victims." This isn't about the fact that Rumsfeld - and now the Joint Chiefs, two of you bizarrely say (what, aren't they following civilian orders too? Or because they aren't on the front lines for this one, they don't deserve your respect? Please. This sentiment betrays you.) - are being attacked. Of course Rumsfeld is being attacked; it's the imagery they use to do it. And beyond that, the "well it's ok to go after the Joint Chiefs because they are the military personnel at the top and are hurting the poor soldier, who is just a poor victim" - infantilizes the military men and women that are doing their jobs. It's indicative of a very annoying, hierarchical leftist mindset. Conservatives want the troops respected for what they've volunteered to do, and the sacrifices they've made. (Some) Leftists liken the troops to everyman victims, and respect them more for the empathy they can engender by being casualties of the big bad men pulling their strings. That's a separate issue from the imagery of using a quad amputee to make a cartoon point, but it's pretty annoying as well. Posted by: Bill from INDC at February 2, 2006 11:22 AM It doesn't matter who it's skewering, whether it's Rumsfeld or Scott Peterson or whoever, it's unseemly at best to use a quadruple amputee to make your case. You guys seem to think there's some implicit solidarity between wounded soldiers and war critics that allows you to exploit the wounded, as if could the soldier could only, you know, write, he'd be drawing the same cartoon. That's quite a leap, and I don't think the cartoonist or his defenders are in any position to make such an assumption. Posted by: spongeworthy at February 2, 2006 11:39 AM spongeworthy, I think you're right about an "implicit solidarity", and sure, it's sometimes presumptuous. But it's not completely baseless; Toles clearly speaks for some, perhaps many, wounded Iraq vets, and surely you make it impossible to talk about the human cost of the war if mention of those humans is taboo, or constitutes "exploitation". And Bill, thanks for the thoughtful reply given that I was kind-of a condescending jerk. I think it's hard to argue that there's no truth in seeing some troops as victims of the war (and Rumsfeld's dismal stewardship), since having volunteered they're of course integrated into a rigid hierarchy, and wholly dependant upon the competence and purity of intentions of higher-ups. Sagging enlistment and retention rates suggest to me that not everyone who volunteered or might have done supports the action in Iraq. Posted by: seriously at February 2, 2006 12:36 PM I thought it was very odd that the JCS sent the letter. I didn't think the cartoon was particularly offensive in and of itself. I have a feeling that what is really making them angry is not the use of the quadruple amputee per se, but the implication that the military is weaker as opposed to battle-hardened; in effect, the cartoonist is using the amputee as a symbol to portray our military as a helpless and weak, and arguing Rumsfeld is a fool for claiming that it is battle-hardened. Military doctrine generally teaches that the appearance of weakness can have real negative effects on the battlefield, just as the appearance of strength can have positive effects. In short, from their perspective this cartoon does much more than mock wounded soldiers: it gives aid and comfort to our enemies, and may get more American soldiers killed. Posted by: TallDave at February 2, 2006 12:41 PM I have a feeling that what is really making them angry ... I have a feeling that what really has them angry is exactly what they say has them angry. We can pat ourselves on our backs for our own cleverness at reading into folks' "real" motivations, but when a group of generals and admirals get together to write a letter, there is a very odds-on possibility that they are, you know, trying to commuincate what they actually think in the letter. You are projecting your political interpretation over their personal motivations. Posted by: Bill from INDC at February 2, 2006 01:05 PM Toles clearly speaks for some, perhaps many, wounded Iraq vets, Um, have you read interviews with injured Iraq war veterans? Vast majority want to go back to their units, if at all possible. So your statement is false. Posted by: JohnAnnArbor at February 2, 2006 01:09 PM Squirrel analogies? How about these: The SOTU speaker opened the livetrap of Social Security reform, baited it with a nutty statement that the Dem squirrels applauded, and then closed the gate on them, leaving them suddenly quiet and looking for a way out. Sitting safely out of reach in her nut-tree, the junior squirrel from New York vigorously rasped her sharp but ineffectual teeth back and forth on her peanut-flavored gum, while the big dog on the porch settled in for an hour of squirrel intimidation. OK, maybe this isn't as easy at you actual bloggers make it look. Posted by: Mike in Austin at February 2, 2006 01:17 PM Heh. No, those are good. Posted by: Bill from INDC at February 2, 2006 01:21 PM Seems to me some folks ought to be elevated above exploiting for political purposes. Wounded soldiers spring to mind as an example, people plummeting from skyscrapers perhaps also. The same point could have been made with Rumsfeld as a mechanic standing over a burnt-out Humvee. I understand the urge of the Adminstrations critics to exploit the human tragedy of war but would suggest finding symbols besides disfigured soldiers. Sure, you lose some impact but those of us who might actually reconsider their views because of an interesting outlook on an issue simply shake our heads at this exploitation and walk away. Posted by: spongeworthy at February 2, 2006 01:27 PM The same point could have been made with Rumsfeld as a mechanic standing over a burnt-out Humvee. Hell, the same point even would have been less offensive depicting a worn out soldier with a sling on his arm. Posted by: Bill from INDC at February 2, 2006 01:29 PM but when a group of generals and admirals get together to write a letter, there is a very odds-on possibility that they are, you know, trying to commuincate what they actually think in the letter. Very arguable. You're talking about the top level of an immense bureaucracy. More likely, there's 1) A group of generals who get angry and propose the writing of a letter 2) A group of lawyers and PR people who go over the proposed text ad infinitum, eventually shading the original intent toward something that's politically palatable -- defending the honor of wounded soldiers.
I would say I'm suggesting a sensible military interpretation over a less sensible political interpretation. I'm not sure how my political views even fit in. Posted by: TallDave at February 2, 2006 02:00 PM The main reason I like my theory better is that the objection as stated doesn't really make sense: However, we believe you and Mr. Toles have done a disservice to your readers and your paper's reputation by using such a callous depiction of those who have volunteered to defened this nation The depiction isn't all that callous, as one can easily argue the artist's sympathies are with the soldier, it's just disgustingly opportunistic. When I see a non-sequitur like that, it suggests to me this got lawyered into something other than it started out as. Posted by: TallDave at February 2, 2006 02:08 PM The cartoon and brouhaha brings to mind the abortion jokes that Greg Gutfield posted at the HuffPost last week. The libs went ballistic, postal even. Why? Because they realize abortion is ghastly and so can't laugh about it and defend it too. That's probably what's going on with the Toles kerfuffle. Only, as someone said above, the lefties infantilize the troops as victims of the US, whereas the fetuses *are* infants and had no choice in the matter. Posted by: cassandra at February 2, 2006 03:26 PM TallDave - I think that you are wrong in suggesting that "lawyers" and PR departments were responsible for the non sequitur thrust of the argument. What you perceive (arguably) as a "non sequitur," generals and admirals could very easily tend to view as defending their men; it took me a second analysis of the cartoon to really let it sink in - past the offensive imagery - that the quad amputee was the Army itself, even. So non-specific analysis does not point to hidden motives. Whether their specific defense is strictly logical or not does not make this truism less true, or lend credence to your POLITICAL analysis; you are overanalyzing. And make no mistake, for you to say that the military is really covering its ass (re: "REALLY annoyed at criticism of its readiness" vs. annoyed at inappropriate imagery) is a POLITICAL argument. Not YOUR political argument, persay, but assigning THEM a political argument. Agree to disagree and let's leave it at that. Posted by: Bill from INDC at February 2, 2006 03:27 PM cassandra - Congratulations on bringing a ridiculously unrelated analogy into the discussion. Not to mention, in the comments on the blog of a pro-choice author that wrote the above bit about infantilizing the troops. Bravo. Posted by: Bill from INDC at February 2, 2006 03:29 PM Well, again, their man wasn't really being attacked, their military capability was. Which is why I proposed that latter was being defended in the guise of the former, which I think was rather clever of them. They do have PR people, you know. And I don't view it as ass-covering, but as PROTECTING THEIR MEN by fighting an image that projects military weakness and could therefore cost lives. Still, I suppose it could just be awkwardly phrased. Posted by: TallDave at February 2, 2006 03:37 PM Ok Dave, I'm going to try and phrase this more simply for you: It is possible that the Joint Chiefs PERCEIVE that their men's injuries ARE being attacked or belittled by the cartoon, and that their response is not some SUPER SECRET POLITICAL ANGLE to divert attention from the cartoon's REAL MESSAGE, which offers the perception of the military as weak. You're plotting like a Machiavellian leftist, based on YOUR logical interpretation and frame of reference. Try Occam's Razor. Posted by: Bill from INDC at February 2, 2006 04:16 PM Well, read the actual letter. It's not a secret hidden message, they come right out and say it: Editorial cartoons are often designed to exaggerate issues, and The Post is obviously free to address any topic, including the state of readiness of the armed forces. And later they use the phrase "truly battle-hardened warriors," directly contradicting the main message of the cartoon that the military is crippled, not battle-hardened. And I don't think this is intended to divert attention from that message. It's a direct frontal assault on that message, which they're doing because they recognize the military danger in that message. You have to stop thinking about it politically, and think about what their letter means militarily. Every military text from Sun Tzu to Clausewitz emphasizes the need to project strength. This about not letting the media get away with defining the U.S. military as weak, for sound military reasons.
Posted by: TallDave at February 2, 2006 04:33 PM You are talking in circles. TallDave at 3:37: Which is why I proposed that latter was being defended in the guise of the former, which I think was rather clever of them. TallDave at 4:33: Well, read the actual letter. It's not a secret hidden message, they come right out and say it ... Just quit, Dave. You are using selective semantical argumentation to debate me. You say that the Joint Chiefs had a motivation that supercedes the simple motivation to defend the honor of their wounded soldiers, and I say you're full of crap on this, looking for political ("military," whatever) maneuvering regarding the military's readiness, WHEN THE MOTIVATION IS MUCH MORE SIMPLE. The military's readiness is attacked by the Press a thousand ways, every day, and yet you envision some scenario - some MASTERSTROKE - for the JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF to finally plant their flag to defend themselves - under the subterfuge of defending the troops honor - in the case of a FRIGGIN' TOM TOLES CARTOON. They are attacking the cartoon because they found it AESTHETICALLY offensive. And to be frank, your over-analysis of the situation - citing Sun Tzu and Clausewitz - is silly. Now, I know you're a dog with a bone, but we might just want to agree to disagree on this one, because soon I'll start comparing you to the KosKid Machiavellians, and you'll get your feelings hurt, and perhaps cry a little, perhaps curse my good name, and then I'll have to think of a new squirrel metaphor ... and nobody wants any of that. Least of all the squirrel community. Posted by: Bill from INDC at February 2, 2006 04:49 PM I see your point, but those don't contradict each other. They're both defending the wounded soldier and using that to achieve their larger goal of defending the military's capability, which is good PR tactics and sound military doctrine. Both of these goals are clearly stated in the letter; it's not some crazy Machiavellian notion I've spun out of thin air. Now, I know you're a dog with a bone, LOL Ohhhhh, and you're not? I CALL SHENANIGANS!! but we might just want to agree to disagree on this one, because soon I'll start comparing you to the KosKid Machiavellians Haha, I think we already agreed we disagree. I just wanted to clarify that where I was coming from was a military perspective based on the contents of the letter, not a political ass-covering conspiracy. But whatever, that's all I'll say, you can have the last word. It's all good for me, dude. Posted by: TallDave at February 2, 2006 05:12 PM I fell asleep halfway through a TallDave comment ... or was it Bill's? Posted by: Robin Roberts at February 2, 2006 11:45 PM Robin - Sorry for sitting you down, tying you up, clamping your eyes open and forcing you to read. Sincerely, Bill Posted by: Bill from INDC at February 3, 2006 07:59 AM wow, 30+ comments. or maybe only 3 if bill and talldave are taken out, but still looks like a lot. does anyone read the perry bible fellowship. Now, those are disturbing cartoons. Posted by: milowent at February 3, 2006 03:38 PM The BBC has little to be proud of as well: Free speech not worth 125 jobs to a beebster http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2006/02/free-speech-not-worth-125-jobs-to.html Posted by: Joe at February 4, 2006 11:38 AM Its OK, Bill. Just next time, use the padded clamps. Posted by: Robin Roberts at February 4, 2006 06:29 PM http://www.insurance-top.com/company/ auto site insurance. auto insurance, insurance car, Best Insurance Web site. from website . 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