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« "No man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent." | Main | Music Two-Fer » January 25, 2006
"Immovable Islam" vs. Irresistible Force
Posted by Bill In a recent secondary-sourced item in The Washington Times, the Pope allegedly echoed a very common right-wing - and to a good extent, scholarly - assertion that Islam is a religion that is structurally immutable; that the nature of the Koran as God's direct word defies modern reform, because God's word resists man's adaptive interpretation through the lens of culture and era. In contrast, texts like the Bible are acknowledged by most Judeo-Christian sects to be man's interpretation of God's word, and thus more open to selective challenges of internal contradictions and edicts that clash with modern materialism and pluralistic culture. Posting over at Ace of Spades, Feisty disagreed with the premise, while several commenters picked up the Pope's theological football and ran with it. While many of the typical "pro-immutable" arguments are sufficiently nuanced and valid, I've previously detected an undercurrent of religious and cultural triumphalism (sometimes jaw-droppingly overt) which I think distorts some of the argumentation in favor of pessimism about the Islamic world. Specifically, in some cases, the condemnation of Islam as an unadaptable force for medievalism gels nicely with an instinct to validate one's own belief system and war with the "Other,*" and this personal affirmation unduly minimizes or attacks the possibility for Islamic reform in service of this goal. For example, a comment (under Feisty's post) which I find naive, at best: the Pope is 100% correct. What we are doing in the Middle East is to try and reform the countries, not Islam itself. We are trying to make people realize that Islam doesn't have all the answers to society's questions, but Islam itself cannot have a reformation in the way Christianity had because the Koran is believed to be the literal word of God. Kinda difficult to tell God you are just going to disobey his will and do what you feel like if you're raised in a culture where your will is meaningless compared to the will of Allah. So far, not so bad. But ... We're planting a seed of doubt into the Middle East as to whether the Islamic faith is the one true faith. And that's a very good thing. When exactly did Western efforts to change broken political systems and pluralize culture equate to a practical end of undermining Islam as the chosen faith of a billion people? To edit and expand my comment under the post, I believe that viewing Islam - or any other religion - as a concrete rulebook immune to illogical human interpretation is a serious miscalculation. One might make a very cogent and accurate argument that Islam is much more resistant to change because of its self-reinforcing structure; I recognize the theological validity of the point. But any immutability still relies on immutable human devoutness and cooperation with its tenets to truly mark it as "incapable of reform." And assuming that culture and society reform in the Islamic world, due to economic realities, the injected Democracy of America's interventionist foreign policy and the unstoppable rise of information availability and consumerism, what do you think is going to win? A. The strict structure of Islam? B. A sudden mass-conversion to atheism or Judeo-Christian religion? C. Or the desire of the human individual to see Islam through adaptive eyes that maintain the religious identity, yet embrace new cultural norms that violate Islam's historically strict tenets? If one thinks that the spread of pluralism can change culture but can't in turn change Islam itself, then it follows logically that the effort to modernize the Islamic world is boxed into a corner of assured failure. Why? Because a billion Muslims aren't going to suddenly and completely forsake their religious and cultural identity for Yu-Gi-Oh, the right to vote and HDTV. The Islamic world may be a tougher nut to crack because of the scripture's structure, but I'll still place my bet on illogical human adaptability of a logically unadaptable religion over the ability of religious doctrine to hold back the floodgates of a human desire for freedom, or the naive belief that individuals will forsake an ancient religious affiliation in favor of Western religions or extremes of secularism. They'll do what all followers of various religions do at some point - engage in periods of apparent apostasy and hypocritical behavior, until such time as that behavior becomes an accepted mutation and fabric of the religion when viewed through the prism of era and culture. Arguments to the contrary strike me as assigning too much credence to unflappable human logic, unduly negative, exaggeratedly culturally triumphalist, or various combinations of the three. Be sure to read the comment thread under Feisty's post, as there are some well-argued comments that disagree with my optimism.
Posted by Bill at January 25, 2006 09:43 AM | TrackBack (2) Trackback PingsTrackBack URL for this entry: CommentsAll religions are dogmatic to some extent. Islam is more so due to a confluence of factors, none of which seem particularly intrinsic to the faith itself. At some point, Christians began applying the logos of the ancient Greeks, and decided that logic could trump dogma, and thus the Enlightenment and Renaissance were born. It's probably not a coincidence that this happened right around the time the Muslims were invading Europe, culminating in the Siege of Vienna, which, had it turned out other than it did, might have ended European Christendom. There's no reason Muslims couldn't adapt too, in the face of necessity. Muslims in Indonesia and elsewhere have shown Islam can adapt, when the leadership accepts that necessity. Posted by: TallDave at January 25, 2006 01:21 PM Bingo. Posted by: Bill from INDC at January 25, 2006 01:28 PM The only disagreement I'd have with you guys is that the superdogmatism in Islam is intrinsic to the religion itself. The Koran was regarded from the beginning, by Mohammed, as the literal words of God sent through Mohammed in visions. Allah essentially used Mohammed like a human dictation machine. Medieval Muslims considered even translating the Koran into any language other than Arabic to be sacriligious because it distorted the words of Allah. Even today many Muslims feel just paraphrasing or translating the Koran is enormously disrepectful to Allah. Early Christians were dogmatic as hell, but they didn't believe the Bible to literally be word for word statements by God. I think you're right and I don't doubt that Muslims can reform their religion, but I think it takes a bigger shift in worldview than it would for a Christian. I also think Muslims in countries that don't have Arabic as their primary language are going to have an easier time of it. Posted by: SeanH at January 25, 2006 09:11 PM I don't disagree with any of your comment, really. Posted by: Bill from INDC at January 25, 2006 09:23 PM Yeah, very minor quibble with TallDave's first paragraph is more what I meant. Posted by: SeanH at January 25, 2006 09:39 PM A lot of people describe the Koran as a war manual. That's not quite correct. It is a motivation manual for war. While it has a lot of guidance for war (deceit, surprise attacks, kill till they are subdued and humiliate), it is actually consume with motivation for war against nonbelievers. It is not just a few verses, but just go on and on and on. A lot of people think - 'If only those "few" verses can be ignored, assuming the Koran is similar to the Bible - just ignore those few bad passages. You can't do that with the Koran, it would be a pamphlet! Islam is a sham, a scam, a bullshit story. But a lot of men love it for obvious reasons. Posted by: John Sobieski at January 25, 2006 11:01 PM Islam is a sham, a scam, a bullshit story. But a lot of men love it for obvious reasons Funny eh John? I mean lot of Muslims think the same about Christianity... small world. I mean, it's not like the Christians really meant to have a half dozen or so crusades which slaughtered the practitioners of what was a peaceful, and extremely tolerant of other faiths, society... they were just out shopping for carpets right? Bear in mind the shit didn't hit the fan with the Muslims until the Catholic crusades started butchering them by the baker's dozen. In fact, the Muslim faith co-existed quite happily with the Jewish and Christian faiths right up to the crusades. Arab's are fundamentalists, and traditionalists with long memories, and very little reason to trust anyone not an Arab. Don't miss understand me, I don't condone the actions of Hamas, or any other Muslim group. In fact I abhor what's been done, but I don't think it's all as simple as we'd like to think. Nor is it made simpler when you have guys like Jerry Falwell, or Pat Robertson, stating essentially the same thing from a Christian perspective. Whether it's a bullshit religion or not, it's the fastest growing religion in the world, and there's more Muslims now than Christians. we need to work with them, not against them. Not going to be an easy task, but starting the conversation with the attitude that their religion isn't valid won't help the end goal, and will likely start them coming from the same position on Christians, whose savior they view as nought but a prophet. Posted by: JoeCalgary at January 26, 2006 03:29 PM Hello Bill, thanks for using my comments on Ace's website to discuss in this article. Perhaps my words were posted in haste, they were just quick thoughts posted in response to what I saw was a naive statement on Feisty's part. I firmly believe that the Islamic faith will not be able to successfully adapt to modern beliefs without a complete fracture of the tenets of the faith itself. Mohammed was violent, aggressive and extremely hostile to people who did not submit to his faith. He was an individual who believed that power and domination was the way to the truth. The language in the Koran, Allah's words, follow the same path as Mohammed did. I do not see how this faith can ever accept other religions as it's equal, which was what my remark intended to say, as long as Mohammed is considered the final prophet who's actions should be emulated and the Koran in all its anger and violence is considered the path that Allah demands of His people. Because these 2 elements are the literal core of Islam, I do not see how there can be any end other than what I hoped for: to plant a seed of doubt in the minds of Muslims as to the path that God intends of each of us. Posted by: NJRob at January 27, 2006 06:51 PM JoeCalgary, you may dismiss my remarks as someone educated in the western culture, but if you look at the time-frame, Islamic peoples invaded Europe before the first Crusade began. Muslims came fairly close to conquering Europe by the sword. So to say the "shit didn't hit the fan till the Catholic Crusades started butchering them by the baker's dozen" is just a bit hyperbolic, wouldn't you say? Posted by: NJRob at January 27, 2006 06:58 PM If, by saying "the Muslims came fairly close to conquering Europe", you mean Byzantium, Spain, and some attempts on southern France constuitutes "nearly conquering Europe", then Hyperbolic would definately be a word to use. If you bother to reference the period of the 6th century through to the 11th, you will find that the Muslims were extremely tolerant of other religions, and in fact lived quite peacefully with them. Conquering an army, and butchering anothers women and children are two different things. The crusades were as much about raping, pillaging, and wholesale slaughter of Muslims, as they were about "restoring" the Holy Land. Christianity played a great role in the birth of the fanatic Muslim, and the yoke of British, American, and German rule definately re-inforced a deep abiding hatred of all things western. Lest you forget, it was Churchill, screwing over T.E. Lawrence which was the nail in the coffin of the west in terms of hatred of the west and ever trusting anything western ever again. It was the support of America which placed a King in Jordon, and create a Zion state out of someone elses country. (Not that I care, but facts are facts) What would you think of the Middle East coming in to your country, and carving an Indian nation out of California, Oregon, and Washington Not to mention the fact that your country, for what reason purely defies me to this day, decided to ignore Lebanon, and allowed Hamas, a small group of nutbars in the 80's, to become one of the preeminent forces in the Middle East today. So America has no one to blame but themselves for Hamas. You guys had a chance to knock them down, and instead you withdrew. It's the Americans who supported the Shah of Iran, it's the Americans who gave Saddam Hussein all those wonderful toys to fight the Iranians... etc. If you wish to use the word "hyperbolic", you'd best look up the defination first, for it is truly hyperbolic to make a conclusion regarding Muslim fanatics, without first examining America's role in their rise. Posted by: JoeCalgary at January 28, 2006 03:10 PM When exactly did Western efforts to change broken political systems and pluralize culture equate to a practical end of undermining Islam as the chosen faith of a billion people? When that religion is at the root of an attempted armed takeover of the world, I would suggest to you that resisting it is probably not a bad thing. Posted by: Bithead at January 29, 2006 10:15 AM Hey, don't get me wrong, the Muslims are fucking Nutbars in the truest sense of the meaning... I'm just say that the Western World hasn't helped ourselves out a whole lot in preventing the type of response we get from them. Personally, I think we (as in Allies) should have fragged the whole damn region 100 years ago... but we didn't, and now look what we have left ourselves. We'll be trying to get this shit off our shoes for another 50 years. 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