INDCJournal: The White Phosphorus "Lethal Cloud"

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November 10, 2005

The White Phosphorus "Lethal Cloud"

Posted by Dorkafork

Side effects of white phosphorus apparently include causing complete credulousness in war opponents. As an example, one Mark Kraft, an e-mailer to Eric Alterman's blog, is spreading the idea that "...there is no way you can use white phosphorus like that without forming a deadly chemical cloud that kills everything within a tenth of a mile in all directions from where it hits." He further states on a comment on a Protein Wisdom post on the subject: "Now, WP isn�t just some kind of friendly little pelet(sic) gun. Its white hot pellets can burn through a tank, and, when that fire is concentrated, it is capable of creating lethal clouds of gas that can kill everyone within 150 meters in all directions. Do the math on that� it�s a circle that spans nearly a quarter of a mile." This claim has been printed in Eric Alterman's Altercation and picked up by Steve D at the Daily Kos, and Kos himself. All have unquestioningly spread the ideas, not only of a 150 meter "lethal cloud", but the idea that WP somehow burns bodies without harming clothing (ideas that apparently originated from this source) For those of you who do not immediately recognize these as absurd on their face, read on:

Does WP create a "lethal cloud" that kills everything within 150 meters? No. WP is a widely used, legal munition, used primarily for illuminaton, but also for creating smoke screens. What are the effects of inhaling this smoke? From FM 8-9, the NATO HANDBOOK ON THE MEDICAL ASPECTS OF NBC DEFENSIVE OPERATIONS AMedP-6(B) Sec. 814 b.:

WP may be used to produce a hot dense white smoke composed of particles of phosphorus pentoxide which are converted by moist air to droplets of phosphoric acid. The smoke irritates the eyes and nose in moderate concentrations. Field concentrations of the smoke are usually harmless although they may cause temporary irritation to the eyes, nose or throat. (emphasis added)

There is also this:

When RP (-ed. red phosphorus) is oxidized, it forms a mixture of phosphorus acids. When these acids are exposed to water vapor, they in turn form polyphosphoric acids, which may be responsible for the toxic injuries to the upper airways. Most of these injuries are mild irritations. No human deaths have been reported from exposure to either white phosphorous or RP smokes. (emphasis added)

which also contains this:

* Red phosphorus: Individuals with toxic inhalation usually have a history of exposure to the smoke either on the battlefield or in some other setting where phosphorus smokes are used.
o Complaints of eye, nose, and throat irritation are common.

o A severe exposure can be associated with an explosive persistent cough. If a person has come in contact with unoxidized phosphorus, chemical burns to the skin can cause pain and erythema.

o Most often the cough and irritating symptoms resolve after the individual is removed from the exposure source.

In other words, on the chemical weapons scale, WP is about as deadly as what this Marine is equipped with.

As for burning bodies while leaving the clothes intact, I think it's amazing that anyone could be gullible to believe that without hesitation. WP is an incendiary device, not a chemical weapon. It ignites when exposed to oxygen (and is generally handled underwater for this reason). It does not burn skin through some sort of exotic chemical reaction, it burns it through heat. If you look at stories from, for example, WWII, they tend to describe men in flames.

Seems some people are willing to believe anything and everything that could make our soldiers look bad.

More here via here (includes some previously excised cussing).

(Related: The next post is on the legality of WP.)

Posted by Dorkafork at November 10, 2005 02:27 AM | TrackBack (5)

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Comments

So Saddam's mustard gas and nerve gas weren't "WMD's" for purposes of "Bush Lied" / "No WMD's in Iraq", but a standard WP munition becomes a WMD when used by the United States military.

WMD's are in the eyes of the beholder I guess -- or maybe the definition of a WMD changes based on who's handing out the oil vouchers, eh, Kojo?

Posted by: WMD Inspector at November 10, 2005 05:34 AM

Thanks for removing the gratuitous cussing. Now I'm able to link it.

Posted by: Hans Mast at November 10, 2005 01:33 PM

We should be more concerned with the deadly chemical Dihydrogen Monoxide, which American soldiers have been seen to purposely expose Iraqi civillians to--even children. American forces have even been supporting efforts to actually pump this dangerous compound directly into Iraq homes.

Posted by: Tom at November 10, 2005 04:04 PM

Reference link for the above comment.

Posted by: Bill from INDC at November 10, 2005 04:08 PM

Sanity wins a round, albeit belatedly, at Kos. Will wonders never cease.

On to the next (patriotic!) smear of our troops. I hear they�ve also been deploying DHMO, one of the deadliest chmecials on Earth. Dihydrogen monoxide kills thousands every year, including 250,000 in a single incident last year, yet our troops use it constantly!

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/dhmo.htm

I demand a war crimes tribunal.

Posted by: TallDave at November 10, 2005 04:11 PM

Oops, someone beat me to it already.

Dammit.

Still, no amount of attention is too much for this deadly chemical weapon, or WMD if you will.

Posted by: TallDave at November 10, 2005 04:17 PM

Another dangerous biological compound used daily by American soldiers is Adenosine Triphospate--this dangerous chemical literally causes human cells to burn from the inside, and is a major cause of premature aging, elevated temperature, and eventual death in 100% of subjects afflicted with it. It is currently found at least in trace amounts in every human and animal in the food chain in Iraq and other countries where the US has landed armies.

(look that one up mr smarty-pants :P )

Posted by: Tom at November 10, 2005 05:04 PM

WP is the new DU. A decade ago the left went hysterical over similar type "reporting" about the effects of DU - which was widely used in Iraq and Kuwait. Unfortunately the blogosphere wasn't around then although the claims that its radiation caused cancer were eventually debunked. There are still fringes on the left where you will hear laments about DU still bandied about, though most are sly enough to shift the talk away from the laughable radiation charges to making it out to be some deliberate attempt to use lead-like poisoning of the soil and water supply.

Posted by: John in Tokyo at November 10, 2005 07:12 PM

Good 'ol ATP hydrolysis. Been a while since my bio days. Is that Calvin Cycle or Krebs? I always get those two confused.

And I never was any good at chemistry, but isn't phosphorous stored in oil, not water, because it reacts violently to water?

Posted by: JSchuler at November 11, 2005 01:12 AM

Tom,

What's worse is that this deadly chemical is found in EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN HOME in quantities that could be lethal if accidentally inhaled.

Posted by: Nathan Azinger at November 11, 2005 02:18 AM

I was withing 150 meters of a WP round going off and the smoke killed me.

I got better.

Posted by: Veeshir at November 11, 2005 09:27 AM

Seems some people are willing to believe anything and everything that could make our soldiers look bad.

Just one little note, for the sake of precision: I don't think the Kossacks, or most other anti-war activists, are interested in making our soldiers look bad (remember, in their eyes, individual soldiers are not primarily responsible for their actions, because that responsibility lies with the command structures that put them in any given situation). Rather, I believe they see this sort of thing as an opportunity to demonstrate that we - the United States as a country - are as capable of doing Bad Things as anyone else, and therefore, since we are the Powerful and the Iraqis are the Oppressed, we should be held to a far higher standard.

In other words, the end goal is to make our government look bad, not our military. I'm sure there are some Vietnam-era hippie anti-military types mixed in with that lot, but I don't think they're a significant force anymore.

Other than that, I agree with your sentiment. Even though these people are ostensibly on "my side" of the debate, I can't possibly defend the level of intellectual dishonesty required to portray WP as a "chemical weapon" in the usual understanding of that term; it has no defense.

Actually, I'm not really sure they are on "my side" anymore. If there weren't so many Pat Robertsons and Rush Limbaughs in the Republican Party, they probably wouldn't be.

Posted by: CITIZEN JOURNALIST at November 11, 2005 02:03 PM

Yeah, CITIZEN JOURNALIST. I read recently someone on the left say that they could be against, for example, the internment of Americans of Japanese descent in WWII without being against WWII itself, which is very true. It just irritates me that they take the flimsiest of evidence and run with it. And treat US soldiers as guilty until proven innocent.

And I'd say this type of treatment is going to have an effect on returning soldiers. I don't want mortar teams coming back and being told they committed war crimes when they didn't.

Posted by: dorkafork at November 11, 2005 02:30 PM

I'm haven't been following the WP debate very closely, so I apologize for my ignorance here. I personally have no interest in making soldiers look bad. The bottom line is that our soldiers don't choose the weapons they deploy -- our goverment makes this decision. So, if the government chooses to use a weapon that will fry somebody's face off, and certain people are appalled by the weapon, they are not commenting negatively on the deployer of the weapon. It's such a silly argument really. The soldiers are not the target of peoples' outrage -- our government it the target of the outrage.

Posted by: Vaughn D. Taylor at November 11, 2005 10:25 PM

May I ask your opinion about this?

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/013050.html

Read the posts from the November 12, 2005 09:32 PM one on.

This is the kind of information they are discussing about

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/PH/phosphorus_pentoxide.html
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p4116.htm

The point seems to be whether phosphorous pentoxide reacts with humidity in air thus generating smoke, or whether it reacts with your tissues. And what if your clothes are *not* wet?

I have no knowledge of chemistry sufficient to guide my judging on the matter.

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Whoever wrote, Another dangerous biological compound used daily by American soldiers Posted by: Tom at November 10, 2005 ... is a complete moron. ATP was used to detect the presence of unknown biological agents, which would explain why high levels could be found in Iraq. The US was after all looking for chemical weapons labs, and wmd. Show me proof off of any website that shows that ADP has been used for anything other than the war on fat. Its military usage is to detect the presence of unknown chemical agents from in luminosity. There is however some evidence pointing to the russians experimenting with this back in 1999, but apart from that nothing can be found. Show me some proof, if any. Post it at my blog. The Chamber Canada's Darkest Magazine. http://thechambermag.blogspot.com/

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