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« Hot, Steaming Quick Links | Main | Seizing Opportunity In Wake Of Intelligent Design Decision, Kansas Nerds Seek To Redefine "Gym" » November 09, 2005
Mary Mapes Names Names ("Anonymous" Ones)
Posted by Bill An excerpt from page 201 of her new book: Within minutes of Buckhead's original posting, Freepers began to repeat and embellish Buckhead's thoughts. Not surprisingly, they all agreed with him, they all agreed with one another, and they all agreed this should be pursued aggressively. Freethinkers they are not. The Freepers and their lockstep like-minded fellow travelers moved as a group, like a school of sharks sweeping toward an unaware and unarmed victim. CBS was like some sunburned, overweight Florida tourist with a cut foot, floundering and flapping in the water alone in the surf. The Freepers swarmed CBS not because it was right or fair but because they could. Mary, no hard feelings? Even in forced retirement, Mapes continues her legacy of accuracy, as neither Powerline, nor Spacetown, nor INDC Journal worked anonymously during the scandal. I invite everyone to revisit my September archives and peruse the "wild and hateful claims" made by INDC. Good times. I will grant her one thing - the "school of sharks" analogy is pretty accurate, though her description of a helpless victim (a multi-million dollar respected professional news organization) is a bit ... off. And let's not forget who chummed the water. (Thanks to Raving Atheist for the tip and excerpt) Posted by Bill at November 9, 2005 09:57 AM | TrackBack (33) Trackback PingsTrackBack URL for this entry: CommentsDear Anonymous Hateful Coward Bill Ardolino, C'mon, you're just upset that you aren't a "freethinker" like Mapes. And mind her admonition about making "wild" claims. Back up your stories and allegations responsibly with evidence--the Mapes Way. Posted by: Hubris at November 9, 2005 11:42 AM If only I wouldn't have hatefully consulted a forensic document examiner. My soul is drowning in hate. Help me? Posted by: Bill from INDC at November 9, 2005 11:45 AM Oh, you consulted an expert? Was that because it was right or fair, or just because you could? You do need help. I'll coordinate the intervention (and bring the Chex mix). Posted by: Hubris at November 9, 2005 11:49 AM I think she has us here. She just exposed a weakness of this nation. Historically, every time a crime is committed, the citizenry go into their "hive mentality", arrest and punish the poor misunderstood "true victim" of society. While the free thinkers come together in independent thinking, late night candlelite vigils. Posted by: Lew Clark at November 9, 2005 11:57 AM "What we are dealing with here is a perfect engine, a blogging machine. It's really a miracle of evolution. All this machine does, is fact check, consult forensic experts, and make little blog posts, and that's all." or Survivor Blogosphere: Outshout, Outargue, Outblog I would agree with her on 2 out of 3 of those. I would replace "outshout" with either "outthink" or "outinvestigate". Posted by: dorkafork at November 9, 2005 12:16 PM Interesting is her analogy of CBS as a "sunburned, overweight Florida tourist with a cut foot, floundering and flapping in the water. . ." Posted by: rbj at November 9, 2005 12:41 PM I admit it: I'm an anonymous hateful outarguer. Granted, not as anonymous as "Lucy Ramirez," but still. Apropos of nothing, let me say that being demonized by Mary Mapes is, by far and away, the coolest thing ever to happen to me as a blogger. We're part of history now, Bill. WE BELONG TO THE AGES. Posted by: Allah at November 9, 2005 12:54 PM
Posted by: milowent at November 9, 2005 12:59 PM Apropos of nothing, let me say that being demonized by Mary Mapes is, by far and away, the coolest thing ever to happen to me as a blogger. Well, at least she identified you by NAME. Posted by: Bill from INDC at November 9, 2005 01:10 PM Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... chum. Posted by: TallDave at November 9, 2005 01:33 PM The funniest part of her whining about anonymous bloggers is the fact that that no expose ever relied less on anonymity than did the debunking of those memos. It'd be one thing if there had been some shadowy Deep Throat figure at the heart of it, feeding people information about typefaces and kerning and such; but in reality, all it took was a pair of working eyes, an IQ over 80, and a dim awareness of what an MS Word document looks like. She's also engaging in a textbook example of ad hominem, of course. But I'm only pointing that out because Karl Rove paid me to. Posted by: Allah at November 9, 2005 01:49 PM Mary's World: A Fable Mary M: Sandwiches for sale. Blogger: I'll take one. Mary M: Here you go sweetie. Blogger: (Munch, Munch) Hey wait a minute this is a shit sandwich. Mary M: Shut up and eat it you mean spirited Nazi. Blogger: Screw you. Mary M: You can't say that. Im telling Daddy. Dan?? Oh Dan? Kevin? What's the frequency??? The End Posted by: Old Dad at November 9, 2005 02:10 PM The Freepers swarmed CBS not because it was right or fair but because they could. I am a noob to blogging and missed all the CBS deal, but if we really don't need a reason, let's do it again! C'mon, can we? Huh? Huh? I want to do it, too! Posted by: B Moe at November 9, 2005 02:14 PM Her prose reads like real Iowahawk stuff. Cordially... Posted by: Rick at November 9, 2005 03:23 PM Oh right, the great Bill Ardolino is braveheart, but Beautiful Atrocities is just refried crap on toast! Posted by: jeff at November 9, 2005 07:20 PM You said it. Posted by: Bill from INDC at November 9, 2005 07:21 PM From page 194: We at CBS were able to find several reliable and credible authorities who confirmed that proportional spacing and the little superscript "th" were indeed available on typewriters in the early 1970's, particularly in specialized applications such as the military, which bought huge numbers of typewriters and could specify what they need. We put these authorities on the air in defense of our story, but their carefully stated knowledge and experience were disregarded. From page 195: The blogs quoted various so-called experts, some of them anonymously, some of them by name. None of these self-proclaimed specialists ever look at any of the memos other than those available to be downloaded from either the White House Web site or the CBS Web site. The only experts that Mapes names are Marcel Matley, James Pierce, Emily Will, Linda James and David Hailey. She discredits Will and James, who warned her against the documents before the piece aired. Matley and Pierce opined solely on the signatures. Hailey didn't enter the picture until after CBS withdrew the story. So she must have been referring to Bill Glennon and Richard Katz, the least qualified of any of the experts to comment on the documents -- but she never names them. And, of course, Phillip Bouffard and John Newcomer aren't mentioned anywhere in the book. Posted by: The Raving Atheist at November 9, 2005 07:44 PM Oh right, the great Bill Ardolino is braveheart, but Beautiful Atrocities is just refried crap on toast! Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...crap. Posted by: Mac Buckets at November 9, 2005 08:33 PM I'm so ashamed of myself for daring to think that my years of experience in software development, especially in writing word processing and rendering software, led me to so evilly contradict her obvious expertise. So ashamed. Posted by: Robin Roberts at November 9, 2005 08:55 PM "sunburned, overweight Florida tourist with a cut foot, floundering and flapping in the water [under which dread Cthulhu lives and waits]. . ." Posted by: Mr Juggernaut at November 9, 2005 09:23 PM Pages 196-97: The debate was reduced to two taunts that rang out like schoolyard mockery. The first might ahve been funny if it hadn't been so pathetically frustrating: The documents are fake! They're phony! They're forgeries! The other taunt was equally maddening: Prove the documents aren't fake! Prove they're real! That, as we'd known from the start, was impossible. Only original documents can be tested and proved authentic. We had relied on other tests: witnesses, analysts, Bush's official documents. But in this supercharged climate, I couldn't get anyone, even at CBS, to pay attention to the subtle but important clues inside the old military records. No one was listening to reason, just to the siren song of the supercharged blogs. Now I know that none of this had to happen. This was an abberation, an ugly moment when mainstream media's credibility problems caused by journalism scandals, the rise of the conservative Web sites, corporate interests, dirty politics, and an inattentive public got together and had a horrible party. They tore up the furniture, borke the wineglasses, left cigarette burns everywhere, and had hangovers for weeks. Then everything went backt to normal. Or at least it did for some people. The rest of us saw our jobs and our life's work destroyed in a few weeks of chaos and abandon. The reputations we had worked so hard to build were trahsed repeatedly by bloggeres who sat in the dark and signed off on angry missives with names like Travimoto, steplock, and Big Kahuna. How do you respond to someone who doesn't have the balls to step out from behind the keyboard? How do you win an argument with a cipher? Posted by: The Raving Atheist at November 9, 2005 09:46 PM She's mad. Posted by: Bill from INDC at November 9, 2005 10:06 PM She's forgotten this. Posted by: Korla Pundit at November 9, 2005 10:29 PM The swipe that we all suffer from groupthink is pretty funny coming from a (former) producer at CBS. What a ninny. Good riddance. Posted by: SWLiP at November 9, 2005 11:06 PM This lady is positively batty. She has absolutely no idea what kind of a fool she's making herself out to be. Denial, they say, ain't just a river in Egypt. Posted by: imsnooping at November 9, 2005 11:28 PM "CBS was like some sunburned, overweight Florida tourist with a cut foot, floundering and flapping in the water alone in the surf." Hey, you said it, not me, lady. Posted by: Mike G at November 9, 2005 11:30 PM The book concludes with this touching "I Have a Dream" speech (p. 332): I am older and wiser and I have a wish list for everyone who has participated in my latest round of life's education. I wish for all the bullying radical bloggers -- the anonymous people sit in the dark and mindlessly attach the mainstream media -- a chance to live in a country without a free press. It couldn't happen to a nicer group of people. I wish for the mainstream media a chance to get off the defensive, get off each other's back, and get on with the business of provocative reporting. I wihs for them a chnace to love their jobs again and a chance to win back the high regard of the public they serve. I wish for Karl Rove to have the opportunity to someday be on the business end of his bruising and unfair techniques. I wish for President Bush a chance to make peace with whatever it is he has worked so hard to cover up about his on-again, off-again aborted service in the Texas Air National Guard. And I wish for the people of this country a chance to believe again in the press and its duty to ask questions on their behalf, to believe that reporters care about real-life Americans, to believe that knowledge is power, to believe that the truth really can set us free. Note: She actually hates bloggers, Rove and Bush (her wishes for them are apparently sarcasm), but loves the mainstream media and the American people. Posted by: The Raving Atheist at November 9, 2005 11:32 PM Mapes, if you have the guts to read this, realize that I'm explicitly calling you a liar and unlike you, I've the proof to back it up. Posted by: Robin Roberts at November 9, 2005 11:36 PM I wish for Mary Mapes a nice, soothing stay in the booby hatch. Posted by: Sean M. at November 9, 2005 11:43 PM Hi, I've been in Antarctica for a year. Did I miss anything? Posted by: Lucy Ramirez at November 9, 2005 11:56 PM Well, nobody will ever accuse her of graciousness in the face of adversity. Posted by: big dirigible Mapes, batty? sure. fun fact: did you know that Bill has to keep moving or he dies? or that he only mates once or twice a lifetime? Posted by: T. Marcell at November 10, 2005 12:06 AM Oh, no. This is going to hurt Bush's chances in '08. Posted by: Korla Pundit at November 10, 2005 12:06 AM How in the WORLD can you get a job like that without, apparently, the ability to read? Posted by: Adrianne Truett at November 10, 2005 12:24 AM I have a dream. A dream where Mary Mapes realizes that she's actually human, just like the rest of us. I have a dream where she realizes that making a mistake is part of the business--that she need not always be right, even when she wants to be so very much--and she finds humility along with her search for the truth. In my dream, I see her looking at bloggers as representatives of her audience; as people that aren't her enemies but, for better or for worse, America and the world. Yeah, you're wonderin' what I'm smokin', ain't ya? (I've cleaned this up as much as I can, but I'm too damn tired to try anymore, so if it makes no sense to some of you, nyah!) Posted by: screwball at November 10, 2005 12:26 AM I learned a long time ago people like to level accusations of what they are guilty of. Replace a few words and: Within minutes of Mapes's original report, CBS reporters began to repeat and embellish Mapes's thoughts. Not surprisingly, they all agreed with her, they all agreed with one another, and they all agreed this should be pursued aggressively. Freethinkers they are not. The CBS reporters and their lockstep like-minded MSM fellow travelers moved as a group, like a school of sharks sweeping toward an unaware and unarmed victim. Posted by: Greg F I couldnt stop laughing at her interview with Brian Ross when I heard this come out of her mouth: "MAPES: I'm perfectly willing to believe those documents are forgeries if there's proof that I haven't seen. ROSS: But isn't it the other way around? Don't you have to prove they're authentic? MAPES: Well, I think that's what critics of the story would say. I know more now than I did then, and I think -- I think -- they have not been proved to be false yet. ROSS: Have they proved to be authentic, though? Isn't that really what journalists do? MAPES: No, I don't think that's the standard. " http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_110905/content/stop_the_tape.guest.html You cant self destruct much more than that. Even Ross seemed shocked. Believe what we tell you or prove us wrong, the standard for MSM excellence. Hahahhahahahaaaa. Posted by: Mark Buehner at November 10, 2005 01:13 AM "I wish for the mainstream media a chance to get off the defensive, get off each other's back, and get on with the business of provocative reporting..." She thinks the purpose of "reporting" is to be "provocative." So who cares if your material is authentic? Posted by: Yehudit at November 10, 2005 03:50 AM Mary, Posted by: oudry at November 10, 2005 06:39 AM Whatta hairball! Posted by: Ed Poinsett at November 10, 2005 06:41 AM So if they were all so hateful, so screamingly out of control to outshout anyone who dared disagree, why did guys like Allah and others back down when it was pointed out that some of the speculation was getting out of hand? Why didn't they angrily shout that down? Oh, right, because once the conversation went from what could be definitively proven (these documents almost certainly had to be forged) to what could not be (who did it and why), people realized there was a difference. I still have scars from it I do. I suggested people slow down and they... they.... they were so... so.... REASONABLE about it! I'm still traumatized by the whole thing. Hold me Mary. I just need to cry. We'll have a pint of Haagen Dasz together.... Posted by: Dean Esmay "The other taunt was equally maddening: Prove the documents aren't fake! Prove they're real!" So CBS News is like Criswell in Plan Nine from Outer Space, saying "Can you prove it didn't happen?" Posted by: James at November 10, 2005 06:55 AM Didn't Dan Blather die? Posted by: oxcart at November 10, 2005 07:03 AM Never forget that this was Mary's Great White Whale, the object of an obsessive compulsive search lasting from 1999. The only problem with her hunt was that she ended up with a Goldfish cracker. In the soup. Posted by: N. O'Brain at November 10, 2005 07:18 AM Mary, you could be more economical with words. Your shark metaphor is overdone. In the blogosphere it is called "Fisking" in honor of a journalist you might like. Posted by: VRWconspiracy 'Not surprisingly, they all agreed with him, they all agreed with one another, and they all agreed this should be pursued aggressively. Freethinkers they are not. The Freepers and their lockstep like-minded fellow travelers moved as a group, like a school of sharks sweeping toward an unaware and unarmed victim.' She must have been reminiscing about a news dept staff meeting. Posted by: Jack Tanner Hey, did you guys get your checks from Karl Rove yet? Mine is late. Posted by: TallDave at November 10, 2005 07:58 AM Typography experts, my foot. The moment someone said, "wait -- this was supposed to have come off a typewriter in 1970?" everybody born before 1980 went, "what?! No way!" I wonder how many thousands of mechanically-typed documents Dan Rather handled as a reporter. It must have occurred to him, too. Posted by: S. Weasel at November 10, 2005 08:44 AM Mary Wrolstad nee Mapes is Lucy Ramirez. Her fabrications were instigated by Terry McAuliffe in DNC Headquarters, in coordination with John Kerry (he of the dishonorable discharge and rescinded self-awarded medals) while absorbing Botox makeovers on Nantucket. Travis County, Texas, wherein lurked Bill Burkett and any number of other extreme-left ideologues, was assigned to fabricate "documents" ex nihilo, in quasi-TANG format, dated after some of the principals involved were dead. These were then faxed back to McAuliffe's DNC for dissemination as many-layered copies to CBS et.al. for Rather and Mde Mary's delectation, codenamed "Ramirez". Seditious libel, slander, breach-of-ethics understate the case. All that saves this puling lowlife is that rebutting her malignities only wastes more time. Now, Mary baby, if these false-but-accurate assertions conflict with your wretched skein of ignorant denials, it is up to YOU to prove us wrong. Since every fact you adduce in this regard will self-incriminate you further, we hope the Wrolstad household stocks weep-and-moan tissues aplenty in place of your ongoing catalepses. You are a fool, Mary. And the essence of your inanity is not to realize how painfully evident you make it. Most likely, nothing you or Big Dan put out for years, particularly while MzBill and her enabler were slopping over, had any more respect for real-world events than your latest Marvel Comic Book production shows. Posted by: John Blake at November 10, 2005 08:54 AM Remember, you're not a freethinking independent individual who's definitely not part of any herd mentality unless YOU HATE BUSH AND ROVE WITH EVERY INCH OF YOUR BEING! On this no one can disagree, or you're a stupid redstate Jesushumping pickup-truck-driving Confederate-flag-waving shotgun-toting overall-wearing snaggletoothed banjo-playing uneducated inbred barefoot hillbilly who threatens fine upstanding journalists by taking pictures of their houses with digital cameras. Posted by: Sue Dohnim at November 10, 2005 08:54 AM Oh, by the way, you can substitute any portion of the leftist platform for the all uppercase section in my post above, and it will always be accurate. Fake, but accurate. Posted by: Sue Dohnim at November 10, 2005 08:59 AM Ignorance abounds Posted by: coolbreeze at November 10, 2005 09:17 AM Mapes is a mental lightweight. How else can she be so deluded by something that is painfully obvious to everyone else. The MSM has been plying us with agenda-driven lies for years. The fact that we don't accept it anymore is wrecking their universe. How dare we! Posted by: cube at November 10, 2005 09:52 AM At the risk of augmenting the libs' verbal arsenal I can't resist the temptation of sharing this charming bit of info: The KGB in its heyday came up with a wonderful version of "false but accurate" that they used in all seriousness in their fight againt dissidents: slanderous fact. Posted by: Jaundicedeye at November 10, 2005 09:57 AM The woman's breakdown is so pitiful I almost want to avert my eyes. Almost. Iterated congratulations, one and all. I remember the day well--16 straight bleary-eyed, butt-weary hours glued to the screen watching it all unfold. Good times. Posted by: Kyda Sylvester It all goes to show you have to flush one of these animals to appeciate how crazy they really are. Posted by: exguru at November 10, 2005 10:11 AM So if the "About us" section of your blog reveals your full name, photos, which college you attended, and the city you live in, you're "anonymous" on Planet Mapes? Interesting.... BTW lay off "Lucy Ramirez" -- I'm claiming that character name in my first novel! Posted by: Supercat at November 10, 2005 10:34 AM You can not read her crap without coming to understand that she is genuinely delusional and living in an alternative universe. Posted by: RogerA at November 10, 2005 10:37 AM I'm already writing a book. It's called "All the Anchorman's Men," and it features a character called "Cunning Linguist" who tells Charles Johnson to "follow the kerning". Posted by: TallDave at November 10, 2005 10:40 AM Interview questions worth asking... Tell me Mary, have you ever tried to reproduce the documents using MS Word & the default settings? After a year of investigation have you identified the machine available in 1973 that could produce these documents? If so, could you reproduce one of the documents for us on camera? Posted by: DennisBoz at November 10, 2005 10:41 AM Help! Help! I'm being out-blogged! on their Web sites there is no disagreement Bwahahahah! That's a pretty funny book. Posted by: SarahW at November 10, 2005 10:49 AM Great comments, all. I really did enjoy watching the bloggers rip Dan Rather and Mary Mapes limb from limb. I'm probably about the same age as Ms. Mapes, and the first machine I saw that could do superscripts was a Wang Office system in the late 1970s. It also typed in Times New Roman, a font I'd never seen before. Anybody here remember Pica and Elite? Those were the fonts MY typewriters had. Oh, and just by the way, when I did work for the Defense Dept. in the early 1980s, they were using a font called Letter Gothic -- not Times New Roman. Posted by: ISurvivedthe70s at November 10, 2005 11:16 AM Hhhmmm....certainly has all of you commenting... Posted by: Terri I think she meant to write "unanimously." Anonymously makes no sense in the context of what she is trying to say. Posted by: adriandrews "We at CBS were able to find several reliable and credible authorities who confirmed that proportional spacing and the little superscript "th" were indeed available on typewriters in the early 1970s" Were you able to find any that 1)didn't require a LOT of extra work to do the centering (far more than anyone would bother to do unless the document needed to be "prettied up" for publication) and 2)matched up with MS Word default settings as precisely as these documents? Didn't think so.... Posted by: steveb at November 10, 2005 11:32 AM "On Web sites such as Powerline, INDC Journal, Allahpundit, and Spacetownusa, the bravehearts of the blogging world worked anonymously..." How she can say "anonymously" in the same sentence in which she names several bloggers? Simple. You just have to understand her elite MSM code words. She SAYS "anonymously", but she MEANS "not working for a real media organization like I do." You aren't like her, so even though your name is on your masthead, you are a non-entity. Tell us more about how it feels to be a "freethinker", Mary!! Posted by: DaveR Sure, there were machines capable of making those docs back in the 70's. I worked on one. It cost well over $20,000 in 1970s' money. Only professional typesetters used them in the industry. Even our spend-happy military of yester-year might have paid a thousand bucks for a hammer, but the steno pool never got anything as shiny and pretty as a Compu-Graphic Typesetter (a BLIND MACHINE, no WYSIWYG abilities, all done with math calculations). And I'm thinking the steno pool at TANG prob'ly didn't waste good math on memo-writing. BAH! Mary Mapes has been willingly duped. Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at November 10, 2005 12:25 PM Joan - To be specific, no, there were not any machines that could make THOSE docs, based on the specific iteration of fonts and spacing. There were typesetting machines that could superscript, had N Times Roman, etc. Posted by: Bill from INDC at November 10, 2005 12:29 PM Oh, and the Compu-Graphic took up an entire office, cuz it needed room for a rotating photographic drum. From which you'd pull copy and photograph it, take the negatives and burn a metal printing plate, load up a ABDick 360 with 20lb paper and print...uh...ONE memo? It's not a cute little IBM Selectric machine on someone's desktop. Just statin' it for clarity. Anyone who has worked in newspapers since the 70s knows exactly what it took to create that phony memo. Grrr! Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at November 10, 2005 12:29 PM The "Grrr!" was for Mary Mapes. You and I cross-posted! :o) Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at November 10, 2005 12:31 PM The point, Bill, as I posted on Allahpundit back then, is that EITHER they were faked on WORD, which we know to be true, or someone went to all the trouble I just outlined for you. ...or maybe I just dreamed I was a typesetter? Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at November 10, 2005 12:34 PM This foolish dupe, oops, woman just doesn't get it and now she wants to cash in on her failed imagination , ala "living history". What a sham! Posted by: Pugsley diBrute at November 10, 2005 12:41 PM The point, Bill, as I posted on Allahpundit back then, is that EITHER they were faked on WORD, which we know to be true, or someone went to all the trouble I just outlined for you. ...or maybe I just dreamed I was a typesetter? I understand your point, but you don't understand mine. The point I'm making to you, which has nothing to do with whether you dreamed you were a typesetter or not, based on the analysis by Newcomer, Bouffard and other computer typesetting and forensic experts, is that even if they went to "all the trouble" with rare technology in that era, they may have had the ability to generate a document with the same general characteristics, (superscript, proportional spacing), but they still would have been unable to generate THOSE documents, which match up exactly with the default settings of MS Word and display obviously computer generated precision. The documents still would have looked quite a bit different, even with the circumstances that you mention. In addition, in his last e-mail to me, Bouffard ruled out the use of New Times Roman in that year with even relatively significant typesetting equipment. It wasn't available. Thus, even with typesetting equipment, the documents are a 100% proven anachronism, with no exceptions for exceptional but possible circumstances. It's important to be specific about the unequivocal nature of the forgeries, as interested parties use the possibility of the existence of said documents - under extraordinairy circumstances - as wiggle room. Posted by: Bill from INDC at November 10, 2005 12:45 PM This whole situation is laughable, or would be were it not for Mapes' continued delusion. Last night I hit google images to try to find the evidence. It took a while. In the meantime, I read someone who said that the forged document had to be typewritten because the "8" in "18" was elevated. Of course, that ignores the fact that the document was run through a FAX at an imperfect angle, which is easily seen throughout the document. That will cause a pixel shift. Things like that are caught by any reasonable examiner. Here are some others: 1. How many other 1973 documents from Killian are typed on a then-hideously-expensive IBM typesetting typewriter? 2. Did President Bush's guard unit even have one of these typesetting IBM Selectrics? I personally only have seen one once in my life, in 1979, at my employer's in house printing department. They used it to typeset in-house forms. It was so expensive that nobody was allowed to touch it unless it was authorized, and for a form. By the way, doing a superscript "th" required changing the type ball. 3. Here is the kicker: Who has the originals??? If Mapes produces the originals, and they are typeset with an IBM machine, and not printed on inkjet / laset (both of which were unavailable in 1973), and the paper and the typefilm in the characters dates 30 years old, then she is believable -- if both 1 and 2 are also answered. Hate? I guess it is hatred to ask the press to use genuine supporting documents when it does a story, especially a pre-election attack on a sitting President of the United States. Personally, the facts mount up to support the conclusion that the documents are forged. John Posted by: Conservativity at November 10, 2005 12:52 PM Worst case of mad cow disease we've seen in years... Posted by: warty at November 10, 2005 01:05 PM Forget Mary Mapes' credulity ... As a professional writer, I want to know what lunatic editor paid her a quarter of a million bucks as the advance for this delightful little book! I want to ride that gravy train myself! Posted by: Corvallis Mike at November 10, 2005 01:08 PM Long live the bloggers!..I am an "ordinary" housewife who discovered blogs a little over 3 months ago when I got DSL and an airport - I have just spent way too much time this morning perusing these comments - insightful, intelligent, and, most importantly (to me) sometimes very funny! I LOL... Why would I ever turn on network or cable news when I can just open my iBook? Posted by: PATTY at November 10, 2005 01:28 PM The most telling scene in the book has to be when, AFTER learning that Burkett had initially lied to them about the source for the documents, Rather says to Mapes (referring to Burkett), "I think he's a truth-teller." To which Mapes responded, "So do I." LOL Posted by: 95bravo at November 10, 2005 01:34 PM Poor Mary Mapes. Let up on the poor thing. Let her lie with impunity again. Posted by: ThEdiths at November 10, 2005 01:40 PM Not to flog a dead horse... Oh what the hell. Flog away! The CompuGraphic typesetter somebody mentioned here was from the '80s, not the '70s. I loved that old beast. And it did take up an entire room. And it didn't print out type on paper (until the '90s); it came out on photographic paper which you then had to run through developer, fixer, etc. Not your typical memo, I'd say. I think Lucy has a lot of 'splainin' to do... Posted by: Korla Pundit at November 10, 2005 02:01 PM The other taunt was equally maddening: Prove the documents aren't fake! Prove they're real!" I take it she is being quite literal about the maddening part. Well, at least there's one true statement in this book. Posted by: The Warden at November 10, 2005 02:08 PM just seeing the word "kerning" again gives me nightmares. Posted by: milowent at November 10, 2005 02:18 PM Yes, I agree with you on that point, Bill. It couldn't have happened. I guess I was just trying for the "angels on the head of a pin" futility argument because it's humorous. And Korla - please go google "compugraphic history" and find the truth. You're wrong about when that thing was first introduced...and I'm prob'ly older than you. Sigh... Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at November 10, 2005 02:49 PM I want to know what Molly Ivins thinks about Mary Mapes. Ivins literally wrote the book on Shrub's pre-political biography. The outlines of the story, that Shrub used "pull" to join TANG, then was kicked out early for poor performance, are surely known to Ivin and her sources. So, maybe the tale is "accurate". But if so it was just as accurate in 2000 when Ivins published her finding as in 2004 when Mapes broadcast her own. What changed? Only one thing. Mapes asserted she had documents. Proof. This is the meat of the sandwich, the bones of the body, the point of the spear. What does Molly Ivins think about Mapes' claim that Ben Barnes tracked down Lucy Rameriz and obtained proof that had eluded Ivins for over a decade? And why doesn't a coastal liberal reporter bother to ask a liberal report who OWNS the Texas political beat?
Posted by: Pouncer at November 10, 2005 03:03 PM You must mean this old workhorse: 1974 - Compugraphic introduces an extensive product line in 1974, which includes the Unified Composer and the ExecuWriter® series. The Unified Composer brought floppy disk and monitor technology together in one product and is designed to meet the needs of the newspaper and commercial printing markets. The ExecuWriter, the first table top machine, is particularly attractive to businesses and organizations producing their own catalogues and brochures. The purchase of T. J. Lyons Press, brings with it the rights to nearly 2,500 old and antique typefaces. This was my steel and plastic master: 1981 - Compugraphic introduces its Modular CompositionSystem (MCS™). The MCS, comprised of core hardware and software modules, affords flexibility and customization for customer needs along with the versatility of upgrading as the customers’ business needs changed. So you're right: you're much, much older than me. Heh heh heh. (Well, not by much, but probably wiser, alas.) Posted by: Korla Pundit at November 10, 2005 03:07 PM Bill's point is exactly why my "Cunning Linguist" character tells LGF to "follow the kerning": the kerning is the one aspect that cannot, under any conceivable circumstances, be replicated by any early 1970s device. Whatever created the docs used a sophisticated algorithm that is child's play for modern PCs with word processing software but impossible for 1970s-era anything. Posted by: TallDave at November 10, 2005 03:37 PM I must admit I enjoyed seeing Mapes and Rather taken to task by the blogpack for journalistic malpractice in Memogate. At last, the liberal media was held accountable for their lefty spin. I further confess I enjoyed their refusal to concede the facts as they went spinning down in infamy to crash and burn. I love it when the bad guys go down ugly. But I have to admit, even I was unsettled by Mapes impersonation of Captain Queeg in the excerpts I read of her book and in interviews. It was astonishing to see her malign virtually everyone who disagreed with her bogus story from her boss, Les Moonves ("doesn't know journalism from dirt farming") to the bloggers debunking her story (vicious Rovian conspirators) to Bush's Air National Guard squadron secretary ("a quite self-righteous typist"). I expected the next paragraph to have her rolling steel balls in her fist and shouting, "I can prove, PROVE, Lt. Bush stole the strawberries with, with, with geometric logic, I tell ya, but everyone, everyone was against me. Everyone! EVERYONE!" I was astonished that she would forward the notion that all these bloggers fact-checking her story were part of some instantaneously-formed conspiracy. Now at first I assumed that she was just lying her way out after being caught red-handed, trying to bulldoze her bogus story through the critics. But the more I read of her version of The Attack of the Blogs, the more I am leaning toward the view that she is simply ignorant of the Internet and its ability to quickly summon arcane expertise into a critical mass of revelation. For old media people like Mapes, witnessing the new media is like Neanderthals seeing fire light up their cave for the first time. They don't understand it and fear it. Fire bad! I was also astonished by the irrational defense of her piece Mapes put up, especially the ad ignorantium argument that since nobody could prove the memos forgeries, they must be authentic. Even though I'm pretty conservative and am acutely aware of the tilt to the left on the MSM, I still thought that you had to be pretty smart to write and present the news on national TV. Mapes defense of her work demolishes that notion of mine. These folks are no smarter than the people in my office. They just have a bigger megaphone to make their points. Mapes Memogate story is a sloppy piece of work; the kind of mediocre work that would earn you a C in grad school, a barked reprimand in an Air Force flying squadron, or a peremptory order from the boss in a corporate IT shop to do it over. It's something of a revelation to me that there is less quality-checking of a major network news story than there is of an ordinary release of software in the average computer shop. In Mapes defense of her work, I do not see the calm reason of a professional tracing her conclusions back to a set of unassailable evidence carefully gathered. Rather, she comes across as a paranoid partisan, like an unhinged James Carville, defending her delusion with ad hominem attacks on her critics. Maybe it's all an example of how it is best not to see how news and sausages are made, but I was taken in by the slick presentation of the network news. Even though I understood that the MSM was spinning things, I still thought that I was getting a quality product. Examining Mapes defense, I realize, with a strange disappointment, that the people in the MSM who process the news are not the professional nor intellectual equals of the top half of the professional world I know. They are simply parochial, partisan hacks. I wonder how many phony stories they sold to the public as true before the Internet came along? What's worse is that they don't get it and won't go away. This article on Mapes from Wednesday the 9th's Washington Post has an ending quote that pushed my eyebrows to the ceiling: Tantor Posted by: Tantor at November 10, 2005 03:51 PM Korla, just cuz I worked on an older machine doesn't mean I'm older. It means I worked for a cheap-ass company. They bought the old geezer 2nd-hand, so I had to learn retro-technology in order to use it. But my math skills greatly improved by using it! Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at November 10, 2005 04:16 PM What about the Graphics Systems C/A/T Phototypesetter? I remember seeing one hooked up to our UNIX system '74-'75 timeframe. When was it introduced? Posted by: Joe W at November 10, 2005 04:29 PM I followed the link in one of the earlier comments to the Iowahawk "Inspector Dan Rather" satire. I'd seen it before, but it was fun to read it again. Then I read some of the quotes from Mapes' book in later comments, and I had to keep reminding myself that those were real quotes, and not a continuation of the Iowahawk satire. It was really hard to keep them separate. It's amazing to realize that Mary Mapes really believes this stuff. She's rationalized it all in her mind, and become totally unhinged from reality. She's totally convinced that it's not her job as a journalist to prove something is true or authentic, but rather the job of her critics to prove that it's false. And even when they do prove it's false, it still doesn't matter because she knows deep down that the underlying story is accurate. Amazing and pathetic. Posted by: dpwiener Two things: 1) Only in the age of the internet were we able to examine a representation of the document to do our own forensics on it. Previously, they would have flashed it up on the TV screen and we would have had to take on faith that it was the real thing. 2) How many times did they get away with the same thing before this? Mapes is so astonished at the outcome only because previously no one was able to check up on her and she's probably been getting away with it for years. For example, 60 Minutes still owes me money for the lost value of my Audi 5000 due to their fabricated report about unintended acceleration. Posted by: Locomotive Breath at November 10, 2005 05:23 PM I wonder how many phony stories they sold to the public as true before the Internet came along? I can't even begin to guess how many, but I know the one in my lifetime that was the most harmful: the Tet Offensive was a crushing defeat for the United States. And the Most Trusted Man in America lead the way. The Rather doesn't fall far from the Cronkite. Posted by: Kyda Sylvester "Despite her career implosion, Mapes hopes to stay in journalism. 'It's what I'm good at,' she said. 'I like making a difference.'" But you have, sweetie. It just wasn't the difference you thought you were making. Not good for you and your fellow "journalists", but great for us. Posted by: Jim C. at November 10, 2005 05:25 PM > Korla, just cuz I worked on an older machine doesn't mean I'm older. Why, you young whippersnapper, when I was a boy, the Kaiser wouldn't let us use the letter dickety, so we invented the double-V. Posted by: Korla Pundit at November 10, 2005 05:52 PM I'm still amazed that Mape's peers referred to her as "brilliant". But perhaps that's the standard for the MSM these days. Posted by: Fenrisulven Mapes is having a Cmdr. Queeg moment. Somewhere, she's seated in a dark room, IBM Selectric typewriter balls in hand, pleading her case to an imaginary jury. Posted by: gaffer at November 10, 2005 08:30 PM Glenn has an interview up. She says the whole brouhaha is because this "toxic response" is what happens to people that attack Bush. What's scary is that Mapes is probably fairly typical of a major newsroom. Posted by: TallDave at November 10, 2005 08:54 PM I remember it well and I remember that here and elsewhere there was not monotonous agreement but vigorous discussion. Bottom line is that Rather, Mapes, & company were lazy bullying inept tampering numb-hearted incendiary dim-witted liars. It just goes to show, character spacing counts. Posted by: ForNow LOL!! Watch it, Korla, or I'll Ludlow Slug you and throw you into the Hell-pot! But if you're a nice boy, I'll give you a three-second Flash and straighten out your job case... Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at November 10, 2005 10:37 PM I swear the wording of the excerpt is very familiar, like it was lifted from some publication from the past. I could use an assist here please. Posted by: Neo at November 10, 2005 10:43 PM >Watch it, Korla, or I'll Ludlow Slug you and throw you into the Hell-pot! Why, I oughta fill you full o' lead... Posted by: Korla Pundit at November 10, 2005 10:58 PM She was in the "no spin zone" earlier this evening claiming that Bush is really the one disconnected from reality. Posted by: Mark in SD at November 11, 2005 02:25 AM Just saw her interview on O'Reilly. Maples was flummoxed by the question of her political affiliation. Was she liberal? She danced and dodged the question. We never got a straight answer. She tried to say she was liberal AND conservative. She was obviously afraid to admit she was a liberal, a freaking flaming liberal. I take that as a small victory. Finally, the liberals working in the MSM are becoming aware that their political bias is an issue and influences their product. The next task is to educate them that far left is not center of the road mainstream. Tantor Posted by: Tantor at November 11, 2005 06:43 AM Tantor: In her book, Mapes discusses what happened when the topic of her politics arose during her interview with the Thornburgh/Boccardi panel (pp. 277-78): As the day dragged on, I grew more and more tired. Tired of this exercise, tired of this government-document, official-memo attempt at a game of "Gotcha!" But I was eater for what I knew was going to come before the end of the day. They were going to ask about my politics. I kenw they had asked everyone else about my politics and I couldn't believe that they wouldn't hit me up for what kind of card I carried, too. When it appeared we were wrapping up for the day and the topic still hand't come up, I finally said something. "Aren't you gus going to ask about my politics? I know you have asked other people about what I believe. Aren't you going to ask me? I could see Dick Hibey glaring at me as though I had gone mad. But Lou Boccardi jumped at the chance. "Well," he said, "wouldn't you say it's true that most of the people that you work with think you are a liberal?" There it was, the "l" word. I asked him whether he though most of the people he worked with thought they knew his politics. He didn't answer. Instead, he asked whether I would describe myself as a liberal. "You mean, are you asking me, 'Am I now or have I ever been a liberal?'" I said, a joking reference to the Army-McCarthy U.S. Senate hearings of 1954, where people were grilled as to whether they had ever been members of the Communist Party. I began talking about my beliefs, about how life is complicated and how labels are not one-size-fits-all. I told them I didn't support the death penalty. I told them that as an adoptive mother, I had very complicated feelings about abortion. Dick was giving me the "shup up, you idiot" look. Finally, to Dick's delight, I did shut up, but only after the panel made it clear that they thought I was a liberal and that, moreover, they felt they had strong proof I was a liberal. They ought to be ashamed of themselves for asking those questions of a journalist with an outstanding twenty-five year record, and then pouncing on my answers. Why were they even considering my politics when they were supposedly just trying to get to the truth of a story? We have been down that road before in this country. Of course, elsewhere in the book Mapes it quite clear that the only thing that mattered about her critics were their politics, and she faults the MSM for focusing on the authenticity of the documents rather than the politics of those challenging it. She goes "down that road" quite a bit (p. 198): Buckhead's midnight call to arms was all that the adical right blogosphere needed to hear. There had never been anything like it, a mobiliization of right-wing Internet users to assail a specific news sory. They would use their numers, their volume, and their sheer insistence to rip at a respected anchor/reporter, a news program, and a network that the right wing had caricatured for decades as the epitome of an elite, liberal media. There were people who still resented Edward R. Murrow of taking on McCarthy, who never forgave Walter Cronkite for telling the truth about Vietnam, who were still raging at Dan Rather for his work on Watergate. Now their bloodlust had found an opportunity and before Dan Rather or Andrew Heyward or I even knew what was happening, these people were on the march, pitchforks, fiery torches, and computer keyboards in hand. Bloggers and readers in this activist arm of conservativism were already closely organized around a handful of related and interdependent Web sites. Their dark and angry little computer kingdom constitutes the Internet's version of conservative talk radio, which seized a huge slice of America's airwaves two decades ago with its black-and-white, blast furnace approach to issues and politics. Now there is an army of bitter and braying radical conservatives out there doing the same thing in cyberspace. Posted by: The Raving Atheist at November 11, 2005 08:23 AM Posted by: Duke at November 11, 2005 12:21 PM My normal reluctance to use ad hominem slurs has been overwhelmed. To wit: Mary Mapes HAS NO BRAIN. Posted by: Escrima at November 11, 2005 03:14 PM This is my first post to any blog....and this particular subject has been interesting. Yes, I do remember pica & elite.... Of course those docs were a fake! And I was just a "girl friday" back then.... M. Mapes...get a life. Posted by: WkgMomof2 at November 11, 2005 05:08 PM Document examiner Emily will exposes some more outright lies by Mapes (via Little Green Footballs). Posted by: The Raving Atheist at November 11, 2005 05:57 PM Good grief! I just read the document examiner's rebuttal to the book, cited above. If Mary Mapes can't get the little stuff right, why should we trust her to get the big stuff right? Aside from any political bias, she simply gets little stuff wrong, stuff like dates and conversations. It looks like her gambit is to be careless in keeping the facts straight then be fiercely assertive in stating them. Bluffing your way through arguments is a salesman scam, not the approach of a professional. Memogate is looking more like equal parts political bias, rationalization, and incompetence. And Mapes is considered a genius in her profession. What kind of defective work are the ordinary schmoes doing? I just saw Mapes on Neil Cavuto's program and she acted like fonts and proportional spacing were some alien subject that only a few experts would know. Anybody who works on Word has elementary knowledge of these things, enough to see through her smoke-blowing. The fact that so many computer-literate people have the basic knowledge to see these documents as frauds is what did Mapes in. She didn't respect her readership. She misjudged her marks. She thought we were as ignorant as her. And she still does. Tantor Posted by: Tantor at November 11, 2005 06:50 PM love this stuff. Posted by: Duke at November 15, 2005 06:08 PM I've just been staying at home not getting anything done. I guess it doesn't bother me. Shrug. I haven't been up to anything. I haven't gotten much done today. Posted by: Kaka21803 at April 18, 2006 03:51 AM I just don't have anything to say , but shrug. So it goes. Not much on my mind recently. I can't be bothered with anything recently. 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