Whedon always has awesome theme songs for his shows.

I didn't know you were a Joss Whedon man, Bill, I must admit I'm pleasantly surprised :)

I was always a Buffy fan, but I just recently finally burned through the Firefly and Angel sets. While I enjoyed the Buffyverse immensely, it had some hokey devices and inconsistencies that sometimes got on my nerves. The short run of Firefly avoided pretty much all of those pitfalls, however. It's just about as good as TV can get, IMO.

yeah, both Buffy and Angel were not lacking in the hokey plot devices department, but I forgive 'em.

I'm going to have to get Firefly now, though!

Heh, Whedon avoids tackiness and gets cancelled. That's TV for you!

Though maybe we can pull a Family Guy here, and get enough people to buy DVD sets that they decide to give Whedon a new contract.

Or I could just wait for the feature film and see it...

I believe that that's the plan with the film, to incite interest for a new lease on the series.

The funny thing is, I saw an episode of Firefly when it was on TV, but it failed to capture me in to regular viewership. The first episodes of the DVD (the two-part pilot) however, were captivating. Ironically, FOX didn't let Whedon start off the series with those introductory episodes, wanting more "action" in the debut.

So cheap Fox-style marketing might be what killed the show?

That's a little ironic.

My problem with Friefly was that it was too heavily laden with the Western theme to the point that it just seemed silly half the time.

Cattle rustlers? "Mudders"?

Gimme a break.

I wasn't able to get in a groove at all with Battlestar Galactica -- too many meetings made for very dull drama. If wanted to watch people have meetings I would stay at work.

Also, no humor.

I think Dr. Baltar is good for a couple laughs per episode. Or Col. Tigh's wife when she's there. I mean, Galactica isn't utterly humorless like--say--24 is.

But I'm definitely going to have to check out Firefly now, as someone who thinks Galactica is the highest-quality science fiction on television.

Firefly was undoubtedly great, but I put it in second place, behind Babylon 5.

But it's a very close second.

I'm hoping they'll do a full-length version of the Ballad of Serenity, too.

My problem with Friefly was that it was too heavily laden with the Western theme to the point that it just seemed silly half the time.

True, true. But if you can let go of snickering at the overt Western metaphors and suspend your disbelief, it becomes irrelevant in the face of neat technology, great character development and excellent writing and effects.

The thing is, I DO like Battlestar Galactaca, but I find it pretty dull compared to firefly - that meetings comment is spot on.

Also, THE fundamental flaw with Galactaca is that while the stories are cool, I really don't care about any of the characters.

Apollo? Yawn. Starbuck? Eh. Boomer? So-so. The executive officer is the most interesting one on the ship. Joss Whedon's true talent (besides the excellent writing) is that he casts great actors to play wonderful characters. Enjoying the combo and chemistry can help one forgive quite a bit in a tv series.

Yeah. By the end of Angel, I couldn't even tell what the plot was any more. It seemed like it was almost entirely based on a few neat characters, with some makeshift plots keeping the series moving forward.

Now I'm going to have to buy it after remembering how witty it was. Like the end of the sword duel. "They say mercy is the mark of a great man."

And yeah, the casting was great.

Yes! Finally someone who agrees with me! If you're wondering why it failed to capture your interest when it was on television, it might be because the incredibly-informative-and-loaded-with-background-information first episode wasn't shown first, because Fox thought it would be too.. something. Not enough trains, I guess, because that one was shown first, which would make absolutely *no* sense.

And I totally agree with SWLiP about Battlestar. It was so dull! I mean yes yes I'm sure the show had some very deep and important things to say, but c'mon!

I watched Firefly after it got cancelled: I was kicking myself by the end of the third or fourth episode. Whedon knows the conventions of television... including knowing when to ignore them. And the casting was excellent.

Sci Fi geek talk? What is this, The Llamabutchers?

Bill, I've come to expect so much more from you.

And for my money, nothing exceeded Babylon 5 for epic space drama.

-Gordon

Ok, now I'm going to have to go get Firefly because the new BSG is, IMHO, the best sci-fi on tv at present.

Of the two-part season's ending, the first five minutes of part 1 was amazing in execution and the last 5 seconds of part 2 was a stunner.

Edward James Olmos' Adama is a great character - true pragmatic commander, especially up against the increasing steeliness of Mary McDonnell's President Roslin. It's nice to see seasoned and extraordinarily talented veterans getting great written parts when so much of tv is model/youth obsessed.

So I look forward to a little compare and contrast.

I didn't like Whedon's stuff at the end. By the end of Buffy it was all about Buffy falling in love with her rapist, the vampire Spike. I kid you not. A character fun in small doses sadly over-used. Both Buffy and Angel had their star/title characters pushed aside at the end for the Spike character, with key supporting characters pushed aside for lame-ass ones producing truly crappy television. Whedon for me epitomizes the worst in Hollywood ... good dialogue mixed with bottom-line-unlikeable characters and "cool" moments that make no sense whatsover. It's like Sideways with non-stop Alias/24/Lost blatant "shock" crap. Both shows should have ended after three years, when they were still good and not all about Whedon's struggles with the "man" at Hollywood's most Barbara Streisand indulgent. That being said both Buffy and Angel were fun shows at the beginning, but are the all time champions for going from good to crap in the writing.

I TRIED to give Firefly a go, for me it was total nihilist garbage, more "cool moments" with the "good guys" just hipper versions of the bad guys. I found the Confederate Chic laughable, as were the Single Action Cap-n-Ball revolvers which were outmoded by the Civil War. If you ever wanted to know what Outlaw Josey Wales meets Chronicles of Riddick would look like, Firefly was for you.

Whedon used to be talented, now he's just repeating himself in the most indulgent Hollywood fashion (Firefly's Reavers were repeated in an episode of Angel, Angel/Buffy/Firefly had the same cold hearted bastard leader who played favorites but stood for nothing really, etc.), hard-core Whedon worshippers supposedly loved the Firefly film, while non-fans thought it was "Star Trek the Motion Picture bad" and it was moved to September, the death slot.

The best sci-fi series were Cold War inspired Babylon 5 (which had, unlike Whedon's shows, consistently likeable, sympathetic, and understandable characters from beginning to end), the Gulliver-like Farscape (until the incoherent last year and miniseries) and the only-on-DVD available "UFO" which despite the cheesy production values has probably the most realistic "leader" around (think Battle of Britain type desperation and focus on mission), and the much missed "Space Above and Beyond" which was Big Red One in outer space to show how skewed wartime gets.

Sci-Fi at it's best combines adventure with veiled political commentary, it's been that way since Jules Verne or Jonathon Swift. These shows all have that. Firefly? It was about ... horses in outer space.

Can't disagree with you more Jim, on almost all counts.

Firefly was about the most libertarian, anti big brother, pro free market capitalism show on TV. Strangely enough the vast majority of online fans were moonbats. I guess even they love to imagine being rebels against an evil empire (for them all evil empires are by definition right wing).

No surprise about the "realism" similarities between Firefly and BSG - Zoic did the effects for both series.

Hrmm...this is beginning to sound like the Trek BBS forums...same things repeated, almost exactly, as they are in any large discussion of Firefly/Angel/Buffy ...ah, feels like home...

I have been thinking about seeing both the Firefly DVD's and going to see the movie. Sounds like good stuff, people like Jim notwithstanding. (You think you could get trolls talking about politics? Try talking smack about the second Star Wars (the REAL second movie). ) If it isn't too hokey, it should be good. And I like Enterprise ;)

As for Fox marketing...it killed Family Guy, three times. It killed Futurama, which is, by far, the best sci-fi, EVER! It killed Firefly. It is killing Arrested Development (I didn't know until I saw the Season One DVD's on Friday that this wasn't the first season!). And yet, it allows utter crap to survive. They are even allowing their flagship, The Simpsons, to suffer. (If I was Fox, I would give Groening a big kick in the butt to do better, OR ELSE!)