A couple of years ago, I was threatened with a lawsuit because I discussed a lawsuit in terms unflattering to the plaintiff. Those interested in the details can email me or visit my site...

Anyway, in figuring out what I could do to defend myself, I learned a bit about libel and slander law. One of the terms that popped up was "libel per se". Basically, it's an act that is virtually indefensible, almost an automatic judgement of libel.

False accusations of crimes is libel per se.

It's gonna be fun when the lawsuits start rolling in. I'm 100% for free speech, and whole-heartedly believe there's way too much use of lawsuits to stifle criticism, but I also believe there's a solid reason for libel and slander laws. And, damn, I hope Guckert is able to retire over this.

The lefty blogosphere has now officially forfeited any notion that they act on principles or they act in the service of any notion higher than "getting conservatives."

Reading the leftie blogs I keep hearing Val Kilmer in my head...
Doc Holiday from the movie Tombstone "it appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds!"

Well, it's not an uncommon tactic for the lefty blogs. There was a big "scandal" in Austin, TX about a year ago when everyone was positive that Governor Rick Perry was gay. Stories were plastered all over the blogs. The Austin Chronicle ran a story or 2. Supporters hung outside the Governor's mansion with signs that said "It's OK to be gay".

You can also get libel per se for a statement that tends to injure another in his trade, business, or profession. As for the crime, it has to be imputation of a "serious" crime in order to be libel per se.

Regardless of the libel per se issue, I always thought the left was "pro-gay" or at least "tolerant" even if they disagreed. I was also under the impression that the Right was where the gay witch hunts originated.

Funny, I have had that backwards all these years...

This is what a temper tantrum looks like when it's thrown by adults with too many tools and too much time on their hands.

You know, in a way it's understandable. There is certain evil that must be toppled regardless of the harm to innocents or the murder of your otherwise, deeply held convicitons. What means would we be employing toward the destruciton of the Nazi leadership in 1939?

In short, this is what can be expected of otherwise decent people living in a world where Bush=Hitler (Gannon=Goebbels?).

It is all part and parcel of the degree to which the left has become unmoored. I used to have respectful policy differences with those on the left. Now I am to understand that I am deeply evil for not agreeing.

Welcome to the internets. Now no need to ever leave your particular fever swamp.

The sad thing is, when this blows up in their faces, it is likely to be portrayed, mainstream, as "blogosphere" problem, rather than a lefty-blogosphere problem. That 'This is just like what they did to that nice Eason Jordan.'

Of course if the guy does protest, or sue for libel, then he's being homophobic and it just shows how eeeeeeevil the Republicans are.
BTW, don't half the bars in DC cater to gays? It was pretty much like that in 96-97 when I lived in Arlington. (not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Oh, but it's not just any staffer -
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The net closes in ... it is beginning to look as if Dubya is homosexual. Could explain a lot. There is a lot of psychoanalytic literature on what happens in the minds of repressed people like him (and in his case it is complicated by years of alcoholism).Don't bother pointing out to me that he has two daughters. I personally know a very aggressive and manipulative gay man (the bastard son of a GI and a Englishwoman from the shires) who has a son.
Rachel, a Brit in London | Email | Homepage | 02.13.05 - 3:21 pm | #
"The Truth Seeker "The incident marked the genesis of the Rove-Bush axis and it was in Washington that Rove met the younger Bush. He literally fell in love with the future President's son. "Huge amounts of charisma, swagger, cowboy boots, flight jacket, wonderful smile, just charisma - you know, wow," Rove recalled years later.
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It's so outlandish, it's funny. I had thought people were unhinged during the Clinton Presidency but this is beyond the pale.

Witch hunts tended to run out of steam as the false accusations were levied against those higher up the social ladder. This will end when the left targets for unorthodox thought one of their own who has sufficient social standing to put an end to the witch hunt. I wouldn't count on it ending anytime soon, considering that the leftie mob just installed Dean as head of the DNC.

At least the Malleus Maleficarum is online now so that the left can conduct a proper witch hunt.

If... he... weighs... the same as a duck,... he's made of wood and therefore... a homo!

Bill,

I am beyond appalled at the story. And, yes, you're right. Somebody needs to get sued. And bloggers need to learn that libel laws apply even in cyberspace.

--|PW|--

I'm not a blogger, but I'm a former lefty, and I'll denounce it. This is ridiculous. And it's the final nail in the coffin of whatever ideological sympathy I once had for these people.

Yeah, we should just be like the right-wing of the blogosphere and call people war criminals and rapists.

Way to make sweeping generalizations to justify your own specifically disgusting behavior.

Owillis: And where the right is wrong in doing so you should scream so from the rooftops. Neither side is right all the time. But here, you are seeking to destroy others, violating your own prinicples to do so, in the service of the 'great cause.'

You're side is wrong on this and if you have any decency you know it. I suspect you do know it. I suspect you cringe a little on your coverage on this.

But instead of reacting to those impulses and striking out at the right in greater furor as a result, you should be man enough to let yourself change your mind. Man enough to stand up and denounce those on your side who chortlingly go about destroying the lives of right-wing 'faggits'.

This Gannon thing has gone from immature to just plain damn retarded. The only reason I'm even interested in it is because I stand in complete awe at the self-marginalisation of the left.

For any culture, it’s a good thing for people to be held accountable. And an independent press is supposed to shine the spotlight of truth and accountability on those who could most benefit from its exercise.

But what does a culture do when their previously entrusted “independent media” is no longer. Answer: they take matters into their own hands.

With the advent of weblogs, individuals can finally hold those who previously viewed themselves as “untouchable” accountable. And those on the right side of the political spectrum seem to be relishing this new engaging technology.

Dan Rather, Eason Jordan, and their ilk are finally learning that you can’t lye to the public day after day with impunity. Sooner or later it catches up with you in spades and negative consequences ensue.

But, since Gannon’s sexual preference has little if anything to do with truth-telling, what exactly are the lefty bloggers doing here?

It would seem that their message to people like Gannon is: Guess what? The Democrat Party is no longer hospitable to gays.

Typical Willis, when he's losing he just doubles his bet and doubles the despicable conduct.

RAY,
Although you are correct in your characterization of the left on this issue, I doubt Ollie is "cringing" over this. Your reasonable tone and logic are completely lost on him. He only understands insulting and berating language. Don't cramp your fingers trying to engage him in a civil debate.

"...responsible leftie..."

huh?

This Gannon thing has gone from immature to just plain damn retarded. The only reason I'm even interested in it is because I stand in complete awe at the self-marginalisation of the left.

Posted by Presstopia at February 14, 2005 09:18 PM

Exactly my thoughts.

There's no use even trying to be reasonable with these moonbats any more--I quit. They're all fucking insane. I'm going to talk about their side like they slander ours now.

"Screw 'em" is gay, O'Dub is gay, Slick Willie is gay, John al-Qerry is gay, and they all have big orgies together with Michael Jackson on a webcam, after hacking into the Nickelodeon website. They steal from poor people and donate it to the Church of Satan. They sacrifice kittens to their moon-god. And then eat their tails. They are the ones who REALLY caused the tsunami, because Greenpeas sabotaged a nuclear submarine, and they wanted to have an excuse to pretend! to care about the "little brown people." And...Helen Thomas is actually dead; it's Osama bin Laden in disguise!

[Sadly, if I were talking about the right, they'd nod their heads in agreement. Retarded, indeed.]

you are kidding me. a complete nobody is ruined because he's a lightweight-cum-conservative who doesn't happen to be the sharpest tool in the shed but wins the White House pass lotto; kos' groupies weild the knife on the bloody [and embellished] takedown, and all mini-me willis can say is we should just be like the right-wing of the blogosphere, which is DU playground speak for "I know you are, but what am I."

karma, y'all. karma.

This is the scorched earth policy of people so fantically attached to their "worldview" that all those outside it are to be crushed and destroyed.

It's the kind of mania has driven all ideologies that eschew the inherent rights of the individual -- from Stalin to Pol Pot to Jim Jones to Iranian Mullahs to Hamas -- it's all either dar ul Islam or dar ul Harb. The Left's "personal is the political" cult identity politics demands that gays are to be part of it to be authentic or be branded an apostate.

And we know how cults deal with apostates.

When Clinton was re-elected did papers run stories on foreign embassies getting increased inquiries from Americans seeking to leave? or special psychological programs being set up to help those "damaged" by the re-election? Sure, the far right wingnuts frothed and foamed but were pretty much out of the loop and marginalized. Their extremism never became the driving force behind the GOP...no far right "MoveOn-dot-org" shrieking "we own you now!" at the Republican heirarchy.

And then yet another unctious and perfidous try at equivalency by Bagdad Blog.

I was pretty sure from the wild and reckless tone taken in the beginning of the big Guckert take down ( said with eyes rolled) that the whole point was to get into a retarded "boyfriend hunt" all along..

Watching that mac truck coming up the hill towards its Ogrish destiny, my attitude has been pretty ....Presstopian (well put thoughts, P.)

They don't realize they are running over their own principles and grinding the democratic party's future down into all that mud.

errr... the last ... Bagdad Blob

PIMF

Being gay is not illegal.

Prostitution however, gay or straight, IS illegal.

"Winning the WH daily press pass lottery" over and over again for a period of two years is highly suspicious and tends to support the notion that Guckert/Gannon was a shill.

Coupled with Armstrong Williams et al a pattern begins to emerge.

If all that isn't enough in itself then consider the fact that Guckert/Gannon was one of a handfull of journalist 'allegedly' leaked access to a classified CIA breifing leading to the outing of a covert CIA operative as political payback.

Just too many coincidences for my liking.

notindc, the claims you are parroting have already been debunked. Didn't happen as you describe.

Yeah, "notindc" (no shit re: "not"). I'll bet he was seeeekritly programmed by Karl Rove and in some soooper seeekrit sex-for-CIA documents ring.

Pathetic.

Oh really?

Which claim would that be then Robert?

not

Got any evidence of convictions for prostitution on Gannon?

If not, please see Robert's notice at the top of this thread.

notindc -

Which claims have been debunked? Why don't you scroll around this site and read. There is absolutely no proof that Gannon was leaked any documents - in fact, Kos's own timeline suggests that he wasn't. I believe that there are two posts on this page about that specific aspect to the story.

"Prostitution however, gay or straight, IS illegal."

Well, technically, not in every locality, but that's nitpicking. What isn't is nitpicking is that the advertisements of an escort service are not illegal. Don't believe me? Pick up your local phone book. While this may seem like semantics, you can't actually claim that the man did anything illegal unless he's been charged (and convicted) of a crime. This is why journalists tend to use the words "alleged."

"Winning the WH daily press pass lottery" over and over again for a period of two years is highly suspicious and tends to support the notion that Guckert/Gannon was a shill.

Helen Thomas is a shill. David Gregory often seems like a shill. Can you recall the incessant questioning about "what mistakes Bush made" at a press conference? Reporters browbeating him into an apology? While you may agree with the line of questioning, this was questioning driven by an agenda that was particularly unfriendly to the President/ on the flip side, Bill Salmon from the Washington Times (who wrote a positive book about Bush) and Jim Engle from Fox would also be considered "shills" by your standard.

IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY TO HAVE FRIENDLY REPORTERS IN THE PRESS POOL.

Armstrong Williams was PAID to promote the policies. This was serious. Talon is just a far right organization that's associated with entities like Free Republic - what questions do you think that they'd ask?

You think a Rovian White House plant would ask things as amateurish as that ridiculous softball lobbed by Gannon about Dems being "divorced from reality?" Do you think that I might have heard of the guy before last week if he was such a nefarious shill? Give me a break. That question he asked about Democrats being "divorced from reality" made all but the most strident ideologues cringe.

You people are embarrassing yourselves, trust me. Outing the man's personal life is shameful.

This is the scorched earth policy of people so fanatically attached to their "worldview" that all those outside it are to be crushed and destroyed.

Good point. I would further claim they believe fanatically that they are fighting fire with fire.

The problem is that fighting fire with fire looks just like arson unless there was a real fire to begin with.

notindc:

An overwhelming need for revenge coupled with paranoia can be a very dangerous mix, often leading to monstrous mistakes. See: Richard Nixon.

Do you think that I might have heard of the guy before last week if he was such a nefarious shill?

Heh. I thought I was the only one who had never heard of him (or even Talon) until this stupid incident. I'm willing to bet that most other bloggers on the right (who know their way around the 'net pretty well) had never heard of him, either.

Can we get some links please! Which sites are you talking about?

Can we get some links please!

Nope. Not giving them the traffic. You can find them on other blogs.