October 23, 2004
Posted by Bill
Speaking of "lies," keep an eye on the front page of the Washington Times this coming Monday.
UPDATE: It's something that the Kerry campaign will be forced to address regarding a previous criticism of Bush's foreign policy. That's all.
UPDATE: Redstate is my source for the fact that the WaTimes is running with the story, though not the story itself. More detail when the story breaks.
Posted by Bill at October 23, 2004 11:23 AM | TrackBack (24)
C'mon Bill, don't keep us in suspense. Out with it.
Posted by: scott at October 23, 2004 11:43 AM
And what's the url???
Posted by: lola at October 23, 2004 11:51 AM
Hmmmm... if you are hinting what I think you are hinting, I just hope they didn't misquote you. ;-)
Posted by: Watcher at October 23, 2004 12:02 PM
Nope. Guess again.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 12:03 PM
Kerry's conceding? So soon?
Posted by: Donna at October 23, 2004 12:23 PM
Ok, should we maybe believe the apparent "abduction" is not true?
Posted by: Mike at October 23, 2004 01:07 PM
This COMING Monday.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 01:09 PM
OK, I'll take a guess. Would it have something to do with something the W-Times found out about Kerry's Vietnam record? Do they have a "smoking gun", to use the proverbial phrase?
Posted by: Joe at October 23, 2004 01:23 PM
We have ways of making you talk.
Posted by: Big Brother at October 23, 2004 01:26 PM
Will it be the Tora Bora thang, with Kerry originally supporting the decision to use local forces and American special forces, but now using it as a criticism?
Posted by: Grant at October 23, 2004 01:26 PM
Powerline has picked up the report. They're being even coyer about it than Bill is being, but then they probably don't have the inside information Bill does. However, they did say it was a "foreign policy issue" that was going to be reported on, which makes me revise my original guess that it was going to be Vietnam-related. The problem here though is that if it's related to Iraq, I don't know what the W-Times could say that hasn't already been said.
Posted by: Joe at October 23, 2004 01:37 PM
Kerry's been caught in a million contradiction and flip-flops and lies. What's so special about this one?
Posted by: NX at October 23, 2004 01:38 PM
I wonder if this has to do with Kerry sending people abroad to negotiate with at least the Syrians and possibly the Iranians...
Posted by: Anonymous2004 at October 23, 2004 01:44 PM
Reading between the lines it seems this story has to do with something Kerry has been saying about the Bush campaign relating to foreign policy that turns out not to be true. It could be a Vietnam-era issue (Bush records that show he was where everyone knows he was or Kerry records showing he wasn't discharged properly, or actually authored the after-action reports), but it seems from what everyone is saying that it has to do with something Kerry has been saying about Bush.
So what are Kerry's primary attacks/lies on Bush's foreign policy? That we go-it-alone (don't see how anything new could be unearthed there), that we moved resources from Afghanistan to Iraq and took our eye off the Usama ball (maybe there's something addressing this, but I hardly see how a devastating piece of new news can come out of it considering we already know Kerry supported the Tora Bora strategy at the time), and that we got diverted by Iraq (again, old news that Kerry has contradicted himself about 50 times on this issue).
I give up.
Posted by: Tony G. at October 23, 2004 01:45 PM
Likely it won't matter, because no matter what it is, only the Times will have the guts to report it. The rest of the MSM will whistle in the dark and walk on by!
But I can't wait.
Posted by: Bill M at October 23, 2004 01:54 PM
Just yesterday I began to hope that Bill Gertz or Rowan Scarborough would uncover new evidence linking Saddam to Bin Laden and company and/or Oklahoma City and/or the first WTC bombing. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Posted by: Yenko at October 23, 2004 01:56 PM
Didn't Mickey Kaus "break" this story last week about Kerry supporting the military strategy at Tora Bora?
The Washington Times is a great paper and all, but let's not get our hopes up about the rest of the media picking up on this, even if it is a blockbuster.
Posted by: Larry Jones at October 23, 2004 01:57 PM
Hmmm, Could it possibly be about selling out Israel to satisfy his Euro buddies and make new friends in the Arab world?
Posted by: Hitman at October 23, 2004 02:00 PM
Comeoncomeoncomeon Bill pleasepleaseplease!!!! Spill it!!!!
Posted by: debbie at October 23, 2004 02:02 PM
But what is the good in giving the DNC 2 whole days to get ready for this story?
Posted by: Right of Center at October 23, 2004 02:06 PM
ive been wondering when Gen. Shinseki is going to come out and counter Kerry's constant lying about how he was fired because of his estimates about required troop strength. is this it?
Posted by: idi_amin at October 23, 2004 02:07 PM
If it really, really, REALLY, helps him blow the election, I am content to wait. ( can't resist - anything to do with campaign contributions and suspect foreign connections?)
Posted by: Pam at October 23, 2004 02:09 PM
It's not huge, but it's interesting.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 02:11 PM
Is it big enough (or interesting enough) to make the MSM? or are we the only ones who will know about it?
Posted by: dmo at October 23, 2004 02:13 PM
If it is not hugh that I can't see how it will amount to much. Voting agaisnt the 87 billion is HUGH and it has only permiated so far.
Posted by: Right of Center at October 23, 2004 02:14 PM
uh.. HUGE (Do I know a HUGH?)
Posted by: Right of Center at October 23, 2004 02:15 PM
My guess is that it may have something to do with the Tora Bora thing, only because that is one of the lynchpins of Kerry's criticism.
Maybe something with the coalition in Iraq of Oil for Food-maybe France is even dirtier, but I don't think theliberals or the MSM care much at all about Oil for Food, they seem to think only Halliburton is evil.
Posted by: Just Me at October 23, 2004 02:27 PM
Yeah, I'm already underwhelmed by the news, and it hasn't even come out yet.
Posted by: Joe R. the Unabrewer at October 23, 2004 02:32 PM
Blogs for Bush has a Kerry Tora Bora quote where he approved of Bush's actions...hmm, could be it. Not huge, but interesting.
Posted by: dmo at October 23, 2004 02:43 PM
Maybe it's the fact that Iraq is going to be having their elections on time. :)
Posted by: mshyde at October 23, 2004 02:44 PM
Unfortunately one source states the Washington Times and another the Washington Post. If it is the Times the MSM will have the ability to deaden its impact by simply ignoring it. If it is the Post then a wider audience will give it legs.
Posted by: corndog at October 23, 2004 02:44 PM
It must be the Tora Bora comment. Kerry was supportive of our actions back in 11/01, but now he criticizes it. Mickey Kaus had shown Kerry's hypocricy a few days ago.
Posted by: Cableguy at October 23, 2004 02:47 PM
Could be Tora Bora, but why is every one so secretive about it then? It's already out.
Posted by: dmo at October 23, 2004 02:49 PM
Not to change the subject TOO too much, but you know what I find interesting? That liberals look at papers like the Washington Times, the New York Post, the Boston Herald, etc, and see Conservative spin-machine rags, while conservatives look at those same publications and see balanced reporting. Meanwhile, Conservatives look at the WashPost, the NYT, and the Globe, and see Liberal rags that just hate conservatives, or even "American values", while liberals look at the same publications and see a fair view of the world. Why can't you people admit that EVERY major news publication has biases one way or the other? You only need to look as far as the list of newspaper endorsements that have been coming out recently for the two Presidential candidates to see these biases in black and white. How about reading the OTHER side once in a while, and THEN deciding who belongs in the "Mainstream" media? Most of us, on BOTH sides, have no idea where the mainstream is anymore.
Posted by: SubjectChanger at October 23, 2004 03:01 PM
I find it equally amazing that any one person can claim to 'speak' for all conservative and liberals!
There is no "all you liberals" or "all you conservatives". Those phrases have only very slightly more meaning than "all you humans".
Posted by: Right of Center at October 23, 2004 03:08 PM
I think it might be about Bush apologizing to the Chinese, back in the day.
Posted by: The Hague at October 23, 2004 03:10 PM
It's not huge, but it's interesting.
Yeah, that's what she said. ; ) (Sorry, sorry!)
Don't spill it, Bill. If I have to wait two weeks to see the election results, I can jolly well wait a few days to see what new fun elements of the MSM have cooked up.
Posted by: Flakbait at October 23, 2004 03:11 PM
Or maybe Chalabi, ur, I mean the Iranians are finally going to release all those "Oil For Food" lists they've been holding.
'member Chalabi guys?
Sat behind The First Lady?
Posted by: The Hague at October 23, 2004 03:13 PM
But I will say that the MSM means more of a one-way communication without testing, probing and peer review.
MSM is not going to go away, but it sure will change - already is.
There is a lot of crap in the blogsphere but there is also a lot of vital information as well.
The "natural habitat" for memes seems to be the internet. Memes are created, evolve - subject to natrual selection, and live or die with amazing speed on the internet.
Because of the evolution and "networked intelligence" the good memes will prosper and the bad ones will die.
Should we get *all* of our information from the internet? No. But I am now comforted that the likes of Dan Rather are doubly watching their P's & Q's (and PDF's!) because IF they don't have it right, they are dead-meat in short order.
Once again American leads the way in creating from thin air a new tool sure to *stengthen* democracy and the rule of the people!
Posted by: Right of Center at October 23, 2004 03:14 PM
Right of Center is right.
Too bad the majority still watch television.
Makes them not ask questions.
Like you guys!
Posted by: The Hague at October 23, 2004 03:16 PM
If it's not huge, is it bigger than a bread box?
Posted by: Oat at October 23, 2004 03:20 PM
Maybe it's about how we stupidly believed the world would join us after a quick victory in Iraq
didn't plan for afterwards
we cheaped out on the forces and send citizen soldiers because we thought the rest of the world would see the light and it would be one big hug again
and we couldn't close the borders, because we were Beta testing Rummy's new ideas, which depended on help or a perfectly calm aftermath, so we went in light and fast.
No one is pissed about good intentions.
It's the incompetence. Plain and simple.
Posted by: The Hague at October 23, 2004 03:21 PM
I love how desperately some people are trying to change the subject on this thread.
I am a little surprised at the idea that the coming story isn't "huge" but Kerry will be required to respond. Kerry's never bothered to respond to anything the SwiftVets have put out, or to the questions for details of his "plans" or to details of the accusations he makes about "secret plans".
Heck, Kerry's primary campaign strategy has been to not respond to anything -- why should he change now?
Posted by: Robert Crawford at October 23, 2004 03:23 PM
Like you just responded to my post?
You can't. They fucked it up, friend.
You bought into a TV President.
Posted by: The Hague at October 23, 2004 03:25 PM
Wars are always a mess. The most dangerous generals are the armchair varriety.
We did not got to Iraq because we *knew* there were WMD's we went because we *didn't know*. We had evidence but didn't know.
You don't get a second chance with a Nuke at 52nd and 7th.
Posted by: Right of Center at October 23, 2004 03:25 PM
Yes, yes, I know why you went in. I know the reasoning. I understand it, don't totally agree with it.
What I'm looking for is someone - SOMEONE - to admit mistakes were made - HUGE MISTAKES - and that corrections will be made.
You never discuss details. Details are where you fail.
And you did. In Iraq.
Posted by: The Hague at October 23, 2004 03:27 PM
Right of center -- don't feed the troll. He's trying to hijack the thread; don't let him.
Posted by: Robert Crawford at October 23, 2004 03:30 PM
I think the jury is out on whether Iraq is failed. But I will draw one distinction with you.
Whether or not Kerry or Bush is President (or Carter, Clinton or Reagan) I would say *WE* succeeded or *WE* failed in *OUR* policy and aims.
Posted by: Right of Center at October 23, 2004 03:30 PM
Huh, guess you don't "stay on offense" do you.
I mean, some of you must be heading over to Newsmax right now to get some hot "quote" or story to tell me I'm wrong.
No debatin' here, huh?
Posted by: The Hague at October 23, 2004 03:31 PM
So, it's all of us or none of us.
I understand your thinking now.
You seemed so Socratic.
Posted by: The Hague at October 23, 2004 03:33 PM
And what thread am I hijaking?
A bunch of Republican hippies chatting about a possible article coming out on Monday?
You're just fans of the politics. You have no idea want is really happening over there.
Posted by: The Hague at October 23, 2004 03:35 PM
Yes Hague, mistakes were made, and other mistakes weren't. Now goodbye.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 03:38 PM
To Hague: Why are you such a pratt?
Posted by: B at October 23, 2004 03:40 PM
since you like going off topic, here's a question:
Apologies and politics don't really mix very well. That goes for both sides and you know it - so stop pretending to be naive.
Posted by: hm at October 23, 2004 03:44 PM
Posted by: hm at October 23, 2004 03:45 PM
Sounds like a horoscope. Something might happen. I won't tell you. Then when it happens, I'll say, "Yes, that was it." Very Limbaugh-esque.
Posted by: The Boy Who Cried Wolfowitz at October 23, 2004 03:50 PM
"Republican Hippie" ?
I went looking and all I could find was this:
Posted by: Right of Center at October 23, 2004 03:51 PM
Rather like pornography :
"you knows it when you sees it"
And also like porn, just because you don't buy it doesn't mean it isn't there.
Posted by: Right of Center at October 23, 2004 03:53 PM
Hague... the reason we "don't discuss details" isn't that we try to avoid them because they're inconvenient. It's a difference in focus--we know that the "big picture" is more important in the long run. Focusing on nothing but details leads to analytical paralysis. The relevant phrase is "can't see the forest for the trees."
To take loss of innocent life for example:
Whether a bomb lands on an innocent wedding party is a detail. Whether we deliberately set out to level cities with utter indifference to the loss of innocent life, now that's the wide focus. No matter how hard we try, some innocents are going to die. Despite the fact that no army in the world has tried harder to avoid it than ours, our soldiers are being SPIT on and called "baby killers" again.
I think the president is a reasonable person and he understands that errors have been made; errors by the CIA (WMD: it's a slam dunk!), by the Pentagon, by his strategy advisors, and by himself. But he's faced with two problems: first, the situation hasn't changed, we are safer but only in the short term. There's still too much work to be done. Second, his foes are NOT reasonable people-- in the charged atmosphere I cite above, to admit ANY error is to give your enemies an opening to crucify you.
And that means they're doing our country a double, no, a triple dis-service.
1) The president is doing (IMHO) what needs to be done. Maybe not perfectly, but who the hell here is perfect? Me? You? Do you think that given incomplete information and limited options, YOU could do better? Nitpicking details and demanding the perfect plan before action means nothing will ever be done.
2) Dividing the country this strongly makes us appear weak. It encourages the enemy to attack us more, to reinforce those who want to quit and dishearten those who want to continue.
3) And finally, by forcing the President to "fort up" and making it impossible to discuss, in a frank and realistic manner, the mistakes that have been made, it ensures that they aren't adequately reviewed and prevented. It encourages a siege mentality in which ALL criticism is ignored, even when valid.
Well, that's my thoughts on it anyway. But what do I know? I'm just an imperfect right-wing ideologue who wants to pacify the middle east by force now rather than nuke it to oblivion later in retaliation for the Miami nuke of '06. . . .
Posted by: ubu at October 23, 2004 03:55 PM
a fine post, but I think Bill from INDC said 'buh bye' that means Hague's ip is no longer welcome here and he is blocked.
Posted by: Right of Center at October 23, 2004 03:57 PM
Once again a lib is here to condescendingly tell us how superior he is, when in fact he's only dealing with the information that the TV tells him (plus that of the DNC talking points memos). Have you studied WWII, Hague? How about Korea? Yes, we made mistakes. This time, the biggest mistake we made was waiting for the American left to finally come on line with our intented effort AFTER we jumped through all of your UN hurdles.
While we were jumping through your hoops, Saddam made sure his WMD were all stashed in Syria. Don't try to refute that - you can't. The news is leaking out about what all is in Syria.
So we spent nearly a year in our "rush to war", thinking that if we did all your ilk asked for that you'd actually be on America's side in this war. What a frickin waste of time. Never again. We all know that you are NOT on this nation's side on ANY issue, and the ONLY thing that matters to you is to regain power.
Having seen your derision of all things American, and your giddyness at all negative news (military, economic, you name it), America has decided that you are dangerous to put back into power. Thank God. Enjoy your future in the ashbin of history. And good riddance.
Posted by: 11B3 at October 23, 2004 04:00 PM
The bottom line: is it big enough to sway momentum and votes? If yes, then this is news worth listening to. If not, then Kerry will ignore it, the MSM will put it on page A-18, and we're getting our hopes up for nothing.
I hope it's big, and I hope it goes beyond the Washington Times.
Posted by: Keith at October 23, 2004 04:10 PM
ROC: You mean the porno that Bill "Falafel" O'Reilly buys?
Posted by: The Boy Who Cried Wolfowitz at October 23, 2004 04:14 PM
I think if a commercial cannot be made of the story or Kerry's response to the story then it won't matter much.
Posted by: Right of Center at October 23, 2004 04:15 PM
If Kerry wrote on message boards, the pretentious poser would use a name like The Hague.
Posted by: Pc at October 23, 2004 04:23 PM
"Republican Hippie". That's a first. As you can probably guess, I'm not a Republican, but I do have Birkenstocks. Does that count for anything?
Posted by: azlibertarian at October 23, 2004 04:33 PM
If this story, whatever it is, is only going to be published in the Washington Times this Monday, I think we're going to be looking at a textbook case of anticlimax. It's not very likely that ABC, CBS, and NBC are going to give coverage to a story based on its prominent coverage in the WashTimes. A buildup to a big revelation like this would only be warranted if the story was going to be published in the WashPost or the NYTimes, because then the Kerry campaign might actually pay attention to it.
Posted by: Joshua at October 23, 2004 04:35 PM
Haque = Hackworth?
Posted by: showlow at October 23, 2004 04:43 PM
"Not huge, but interesting."
If that is an accurate description, the story is already being overhyped.
BTW ~ I think the WP is the best of MSM newspapers today. A slightly left of center tilt on most issues, to be sure, but an honest effort to get stories right.
In contrast, NYT is a sad shell of its former self. Once the most reliable newspaper in the world, it has gone steadily downhill since the retirement of Abe Rosenthal. AR was a liberal, but insistent on high journalistic standards in news reporting.
Since he left, just after the Sulzberger family gave the paper to Arthur, Jr. as a toy (guess he couldn't find a real job), it's been in the tank.
Posted by: Adjoran at October 23, 2004 04:46 PM
What exactly is a "Republican Hippie?" I plead guilty to the republican part though.
Posted by: Just Me at October 23, 2004 05:09 PM
I bet it has anything to do with that MTV rock the vote Democrat connection deal mentioned on National Review's Kerry Spot.
Posted by: Markus Barca at October 23, 2004 05:16 PM
You said foreign policy. Nevermind.
Posted by: Markus Barca at October 23, 2004 05:18 PM
I don't have any inside info, but I have been hearing some talk about Kerry, nuclear fuel rods and Iran. Could this be the story?
Posted by: Mike at October 23, 2004 05:20 PM
How about -
Osama Actually killed at tora-bora ?
Posted by: Neocon at October 23, 2004 05:27 PM
"considering we already know Kerry supported the Tora Bora strategy at the time"
Nooooo silly duped rightwingnuts; Kerry was answering a question about USING FLAME-THROWERS. Too bad ya'll don't know how to READ.
YOU'RE the DUPED IDIOTS who still think Iraq had WMD!
YOU'RE the DUPED IDIOTS who still think Iraq did 911!
YOU'RE the DUPED IDIOTS who still think the world was pro-invasion of Iraq!
And YOU'RE the DUPED IDIOTS that think Kerry lies and bush doesn't!
Posted by: Tilden at October 23, 2004 05:30 PM
Bill, I think this is what the story will be about. This is from a transcript of the Larry King Live show in the time frame of Tora Bora.
KING: We are going to talk about war at the end of this week. We are learning a lot more about it. We seem to, every few years or so, get into one. We are in another one now on two fronts.
So we welcome three heroes. Senator John Kerry is with us here in Los Angeles. He is the Senate Foreign Relations committee member, highly decorated Vietnam war hero, three Purple Hearts, the Silver Star and the Bronze Star. In Washington, Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham, former Navy ace -- saw the movie "Top Gun", Tom Cruise may have played him -- highly decorated Vietnam veteran, Purple Heart, the Navy Cross, two Silver Stars and numerous other decorations. And also in Washington, General George Joulwan, United States Army retired, Vietnam veteran himself, and a former NATO supreme commander. Before we talk about their experiences, and a little bit about what war is like, Senator Kerry -- and this is for all of you, how goes it so far in Afghanistan, in your opinion?
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: I think our guys are doing a superb job. I think we've had, things break for us, the way, one would want them to, but in addition, I think the people you just heard, they are trained, they are ready. I think we have been smart, I think the administration leadership has done it well and we are on right track.
Posted by: Anon at October 23, 2004 05:50 PM
"My guess is that it may have something to do with the Tora Bora thing, only because that is one of the lynchpins of Kerry's criticism."
Kerry has lied about many things, eg, abusing Bremer's words, mis-stating Sensenbrenner on the Patriot Act, taking Ronald Reagans' name in vain when he opposed The Great Reagan totally and called his terms "8 years of moral darkness"
... BUT I always found his Tora Bora lie the most despicable.
I've heard different sources claim (a) Bin Laden went over the border on Dec 6, 2001; (b) Bin Laden was killed Dec 1, 2001, but the bombing vaporized him and we didnt announce because we didnt want to make a martyr, (c) reports that he was in Tora Bora not certain, and he was actually elsewhere at the time. (Genl Tommy Franks in public statements has indicated "c").
Who is right? Insiders, like those on the Senate Intel committee, probably know.
So a plausible story line would be to get to the bottom of this. Confirming that Kerry knows one story but is telling another (he knows to be false) to attack Bush would indeed be a BIG DEAL. It could be Tora Bora, or it could be analogous stories (eg Zarqawi/terrorism and Iraq; Iran; etc.)
Posted by: Patrick at October 23, 2004 05:57 PM
Give us a little hint: Is it about something that happened this century, or before?
If before, is it pre or post 1980?
Posted by: Jill at October 23, 2004 05:59 PM
Maybe someone has discovered that Kerry really doesn't have a secret plan to end the war. That'll sure blow the lid off.
Posted by: Hank Fenster at October 23, 2004 06:05 PM
I think it is most likely related to Kerry's claim that we had UBL "in the crosshairs and we outsourced the job." Perhaps there is some video footage or some other conclusive evidence that will prove Kerry's claim is false. Anyone have any other ideas?
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 06:28 PM
He doesn't have 'a' plan, he has 56 plans - don't you know?
Posted by: dmo at October 23, 2004 06:28 PM
It is about something that happened or did not happen in the past few years.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 06:31 PM
Kerry claimed it happened and it didn't?
Or Kerry claimed it didn't happen and it did?
Posted by: david at October 23, 2004 06:34 PM
As much as I'd love to think it has to do with the capture of UBL, I think that would go against Bill's suggestion that its not huge, but rather interesting.
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 06:35 PM
I guess since it's foreign policy related we can rule out DUI...
Posted by: dmo at October 23, 2004 06:38 PM
I think Patrick is on the right track.
Remember how GW looked at Kerry during the debate when Kerry was making the ToraBora accusation? I thought at the time that Bush was thinking, 'you SOB, you know what I know, and you know I can't rebut this crap.'
Kerry's repeated taunts seem to me to be trying to get Bush to give up something about OBL that for national security/strategy reasons he doesn't want to bring out. for example, if we are merely pretending that OBL is in Pakistan so we can have a military presence there. It could possibly help Bush politically to be able to say we killed OBL at ToraBora, but he is more concerned about the strategic benefits of leaving it as is.
for backup I can't give links, but Ihave read that both Powell and Cheney(? or Rumsfeld?) just recently said, oh we pretty much know where he is and we're just watching for now.
Posted by: QuiltsandSTars at October 23, 2004 06:49 PM
Okay, so we know it isn't about Vietnam. The rest is driving me nuts...It could be anything, since Kerry has a habit of not telling the truth.
Posted by: sm at October 23, 2004 06:49 PM
A lot of stuff has been written about Kerry and his fabrications. The Swift Vets have done a wonderful job of bringing up his distortions.
How can this new "event or lack of event" be so important that it merits such a warmup? If it is not a real sock in the jaw for him, he can ignore it. If it has any wiggle room his spin people will trample it (pardon the mixed metaphores there.)
Unless it is undisputable and very clear and damning, how can it be any different from other "outings?"
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 06:54 PM
I agree wholeheartedly with QuiltsandSTars. That would make perfect sense--however, Bill said it wasn't huge. In my opinion, that would be HUUUUUGE--simply because Kerry and Edwards have repeatedly pressed that point. What do you think?
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 06:54 PM
Perhaps you might be right. It might have to do with Tora Bora and OBL, and an article that just came out this past week.
Something that Kerry would have known being on the Senate Intel Committee. He knew that what he was saying was false, and that it couldn't be refuted by President Bush for security reasons.
Posted by: sm at October 23, 2004 07:02 PM
How can this new "event or lack of event" be so important that it merits such a warmup?
Such a warm-up? I'm just telling you to watch the paper. If you get an erection and pass out from the loss of blood to your head, that's not my responsibility.
I had a very small part in the initial work on the story, and I think it's a very important bit of info, but I also think that cheating in a debate is important, so what do I know, right?
Just decide for yourself on Monday.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 07:03 PM
I think it's Tora Bora,too. Kerry has been claiming Bush let Osama get away when we had him trapped in Tora Bora. But remember, Kerry is on the intelligence committee. Maybe Kerry, along with the other members of the committee were told long ago that Osama wasn't in Tora Bora when we were bombing it. That he had escaped to Iran or someplace like that. Kerry knows this, but has still been harassing Bush for letting Osama escape.
Posted by: jimboster at October 23, 2004 07:04 PM
Jimboster, I think you're right on target.
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 07:08 PM
Can't get an erection, Bill, I'm a girl. But Ok, I will chill on this.
Hope it's worth the PMS.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 07:08 PM
Hello, I will break the story tonight. It's massive!
Posted by: Matt Drudge at October 23, 2004 07:09 PM
Another guess... Josh Marshall = Niger yellow cake. John Kerry = Francophile. John Kerry's foreign policy = France is our dear friend. Does this have to do with perhaps France being behind the "yellow cake" story, in order to sabotage our efforts with the coalition, thus protecting their own interests in Iraq? I'm sorry, I just can't stop speculating... and I'm always suspicious of the French, I admit.
Posted by: PM at October 23, 2004 07:23 PM
Look's like I need to stay up tonight to get the scoop. Thanks Matt!
Posted by: dmo at October 23, 2004 07:23 PM
Don't worry Mikey, a little PMS never hurt any of us... :-)
Posted by: sm at October 23, 2004 07:24 PM
If Drudge breaks it tonight, it will definitely be picked up by FNC, and I think that rest of the MSM will be forced to acknowledge it due to the traffic on Drudge...crossing my fingers!
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 07:25 PM
Uh, that's not really Matt Drudge.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 07:28 PM
feelin like an idiot....
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 07:31 PM
Sm- Thanks- I get the "penis stuff" a lot since I'm assumed to be a guy.
Can't wait to see whazzup with Skerry. Hope it knocks him out!
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 07:33 PM
We are all trying to get the scoop.
I went to the Drudge Site myself, but then I'm just a girl.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 07:35 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Drudge did break the story before Monday - especially with all this talk.
Posted by: dmo at October 23, 2004 07:39 PM
I am still going with Tora Bora.
But I sort of like the whole "yellow cake/france" idea-although I haven't heard Kerry harping on that too much.
Kerry harps on Tora Bora all over the place, he mentioned at least once in all three debates, and it is part of his standard stump speech.
Posted by: Just Me at October 23, 2004 07:41 PM
I am still going with Tora Bora.
But I sort of like the whole "yellow cake/france" idea-although I haven't heard Kerry harping on that too much.
Kerry harps on Tora Bora all over the place, he mentioned at least once in all three debates, and it is part of his standard stump speech.
Posted by: Just Me at October 23, 2004 07:41 PM
Can you fill me in on the 'yellow cake/france' thing? What's that all about?
Posted by: dmo at October 23, 2004 07:44 PM
After looking through several blogs, I've come to the conclusion that we can eliminate several potential theories. According to dummocrats.com, the story is not related to:
--details on Kerry's meetings with the Viet Cong?
Other theories that have been dismissed have been pertaining to his dishonorable discharge and his career as a prosecutor.
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 07:51 PM
Maybe he is, can I say this? French?
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 07:53 PM
It's Kerry's discharge fromn the military....Hillary finally has leaked the documents showing that his discharge from the army didn't come 'til years after his service period was up.
Posted by: todd at October 23, 2004 08:15 PM
It's been quiet on the Sandy Berger front, perhaps an indictment?
Posted by: Jimmy's Attack Rabbit at October 23, 2004 08:16 PM
Re the "yellow cake"- it's convoluted, and a long explanation, just google "josh marshall yellow cake" and you'll find the details on the original story. I substitute the French for the Italian guy, that's all. And with sKerry's connection through the Senate, he would know the real deal on the intelligence. But it's a long shot, like I said, I'm biased against the French, AND I'm flipping out at the thought of a possible sKerry presidency. I DO NOT trust that man.
Posted by: PM at October 23, 2004 08:17 PM
Yellowcake related? It's the only point I haven't seen posted yet!
Posted by: csimba at October 23, 2004 08:20 PM
How about this: Sandy Berger stuffed UBL in his socks to try to hide him until Nov 3rd, but the WT conducted a sting operation in his laundry room.
Posted by: tc at October 23, 2004 08:20 PM
Down to a 50% chance. Is it a dead girl or a live boy?
Posted by: robert at October 23, 2004 08:28 PM
As far as the Osama/Tora Bora possibilities there is an interesting thread going on a Roger Simon...
Posted by: dave at October 23, 2004 08:30 PM
Okay, so now we know that it isn't Tora Bora either. I'm getting very nervous. I'm very much like pm, I don't trust sKerry either.
Posted by: sm at October 23, 2004 08:30 PM
Sorry wrong link...
Posted by: dave at October 23, 2004 08:32 PM
Yellow cake theory again...Well, sKerry's been ripping into Bush on poor intelligence leading to "wrong war, wrong time, blah, blah..." My thought was wouldn't it be embarrassing for him if the French ( sKerry's best friends and capable of any betrayal) to be linked to that in some way. And it occurred to me because Josh Marshall was on and on about the yellow cake intelligence. It wouldn't be a death knell for sKerry, but interesting. I'm trying to play armchair detective here, putting all clues together. It really could be anything.
Posted by: Pam at October 23, 2004 08:32 PM
I posted under PM twice, but I'm Pam also. Pam = PM :) I should just call myself yellow cake for the evening.
Posted by: Pam at October 23, 2004 08:38 PM
Maybe PETA got mad because of the goose hunt.
Or ELmer Fud is suing him for impersonating him.
Maybe one of Theresa's ahem, "charities" is a front for a terrorist organization and she knows it?
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 08:41 PM
Ya know, Whenever there is something like this in the air I think- follow the money.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 08:55 PM
This rumor hasn't been approved by me!
Posted by: George W Bush at October 23, 2004 09:06 PM
Please tell us this much--is it a story that an average person will find to be significant? Or will it only be meaningful to those of us political junkies?
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 09:09 PM
LuvyaDubya, whatever the story I won't be reporting it. Screw you and screw Bush!
Posted by: Dan Rather at October 23, 2004 09:11 PM
Following the money, some people and places come to mind. George Soros, the UN, France, Russia, Germany, there's a lot there, actually. I'm sure I'm leaving out alot. And all have a relation to foreign policy. What would be the tie in with "like Josh Marshall, but real" on "RedStates"? There was also this little piece on "House of Wheels" talking about either the DNC or sKerry acccepting campaign contributions from some suspect foreign entities, but it wasn't really give much credence. That was posted yesterday or the day before.
Posted by: Pam at October 23, 2004 09:11 PM
Senator Kerry (illegally) sent campaign officials advising him on foreign affairs to negotiate with Syria and Iran.
Posted by: corndog at October 23, 2004 09:11 PM
err...cancel out "those of"
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 09:11 PM
Kerry said he met with the UN Security Council before the war, but there is no record of it... maybe?
Posted by: dmo at October 23, 2004 09:13 PM
Why doesn't the owner of this site just tell us. Geez there's ike 12 people who actually visit this site. It won't matter until it hits Drudge anyways. hahah
Posted by: Jim at October 23, 2004 09:14 PM
Pardon my French (or, is that, Kerry-ese?), but you are, how we say...stupid.
Posted by: Steve at October 23, 2004 09:25 PM
Steve, you're stinky
Posted by: Jim at October 23, 2004 09:26 PM
Au contraire! I am not French, therefore I stinketh not!
Posted by: Steve at October 23, 2004 09:29 PM
Ok guys, I've decided to let you know the big story tomorrow. Steve had a baby with John Kerry!
(Nice try -Ed)
Posted by: NOT Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 09:30 PM
I hate suspense! I'm so frustrated...I might lose my mind and start spouting off nonsense just like Lawrence O'Donnell last night :)
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 09:34 PM
You guys crack me up - you're like info junkies. :-)
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 09:35 PM
Kerry is actually a Yankee fan.
Posted by: arlo at October 23, 2004 09:40 PM
Aw, c'mon, Bill, at least just tell us whether it's wonky and will not interest people who aren't political junkies.
Posted by: Jim (different one) at October 23, 2004 09:41 PM
Let's see. Bill at INDC had a small part in it. It's foreign policy related. It is fairly recent. It concerns something that did happen that Kerry said did not happen, or something that didn't happen that Kerry said did.
Bill, what have you been up to lately? Geez, I think I'm going to go nutz waiting for this to come out.
Why are they going with it on a Monday and not on a Sunday? Wouldn't Sunday get a bigger bang for the buck?
I do kind of lean towards the ToraBora idea, perhaps something along the lines that we have verified that UBL wasn't there and the Senate Intelligence Committee was fully briefed, so Kerry knows. That would show Kerry is flat-out lying on the campaign trail. Not big, but interesting. And I think they'd have to respond to it.
Are we getting warm yet?
Posted by: Bill M at October 23, 2004 09:41 PM
You guys have nothing on me! Go to hell Bill !
Posted by: John Kerry at October 23, 2004 09:41 PM
I'm getting frustrated here. It isn't Tora Bora, it isn't Iraq, it isn't Vietnam. What the devil is it? The Ivory Coast? Darfur? Gaza? The Green Monster at Fenway Park?
Posted by: Joe at October 23, 2004 09:42 PM
the story is Bill has no story. He made it all up because he was bored!
Posted by: Matt Drudge at October 23, 2004 09:44 PM
Me too! I think I'm getting high Blood pressure from the wait. Along with Mikey's PMS and I'm really over the top.
Posted by: sm at October 23, 2004 09:48 PM
CNN did a special today on how that bump on Bush's back in the debates was a radio. Implications that Bush cheated during the debates are ruminating all over the place. Anytime the dems get ready to do something or get caught for doing something, they accuse republicans of the same thing. For example, voter fraud. I think JFK played dirty pool in the debates and he's caught. Is that getting warm, Bill?
Posted by: Kathy at October 23, 2004 09:51 PM
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 09:51 PM
He hasn't mine yet Mikey. But, I think by now he knows I'm female???
Posted by: sm at October 23, 2004 09:53 PM
That sounds reasonable to me.
Kerry probably had a micorphone hidden in his hair or someplace else where he gets his information, if you catch my drift.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 09:55 PM
Man, it's so cold in here all of a sudden, my nipples could cut glass.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 09:55 PM
The problem the dems have is that the radio story about Bush is old news.
Posted by: sm at October 23, 2004 09:57 PM
Kathy---if that's true, then how is it related to foreign policy? So far, the clues we have are 1) its related to foreign policy, and 2) its not huge, but interesting.
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 09:58 PM
Kerry is running for President of France?
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:00 PM
I wanted to be the first to break the story that Senator Kerry was planning a sex change operation in Sweden if he won the election.
This way he could be the first female president of the USA.
Damn! Scooped by Bill of INDC and The Washington Times again!
Posted by: Partisan Political Operative @11372 at October 23, 2004 10:00 PM
Oh GAwd! He would be the ugliest woman! EEEWWW!
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:01 PM
*whine* Damn you, Bill. This had BETTER be a good story, or everyone who posts on this blog who lives in the metropolitian Washington area is going to purchase a baseball bat from their nearest neighborhood sporting-goods store and come looking for you.
Posted by: Joe at October 23, 2004 10:02 PM
one big goose story.
Posted by: know_nothing at October 23, 2004 10:02 PM
3) "It is about something that happened or did not happen in the past few years."
Posted by: sm at October 23, 2004 10:02 PM
I make no guarantees. Your mileage may vary. I find it very significant, but many significant things Kerry's done have been overlooked. Then again, some haven't ...
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 10:03 PM
Is it animal, vegetable or mineral?
Bigger than a breadbox? A prime number?
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:04 PM
My guess is we now have proof Osama is dead. Bush didn't want to publicize it till now
Remember, you heard it here first!
Posted by: Yehudit at October 23, 2004 10:05 PM
He and Hillary are having an affair.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:05 PM
My guess is we now have proof Osama is dead.
It's sooo cold in here ...
That would be news of monstrous proportions, wouldn't it?
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 10:06 PM
who shot the goose?
Posted by: know_nothing at October 23, 2004 10:07 PM
I think the big story is.... Kerry does not really like the French. He thinks eating snails is disgusting. He also dislikes French films because of all the subtitles. Steve Martin was right: it's like they've got a different word for everything. Plus like many of us Kerry probably has never understood why we call it the French and Indian War, when the French and most of the Indians were on the same side.
Posted by: NCC at October 23, 2004 10:08 PM
People are commenting under my name, so be careful. They are being banned the second after they post. FYI.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 10:09 PM
Ick! I wouldn't want that man to wash my car much less... what you suggested.
(I did not make that comment - Ed)
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:09 PM
Kerry is running for dictator of Viet Nam. (He was there once for a day or two. To hunt geese or something.)
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:11 PM
I think Kerry spend a Christmas with the Indians(or Native AMericans)and French. It is burned into his memory. He went goose hunting with them. He has a magic Elmer Fud hat to prove it.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:15 PM
I know that this might not be the *surprise* your talking about (maybe it is), but, do you know anything about this?
I've heard a couple of times in passing on Monica Crowley's local radio show, that she knows an intel insider that says that Qadaffi let Saddam do his WMD research etc. in Libya because Libya was not being inspected by the UN. This story was supposed to be broken sometime in September/October.
However, the above link was all I could find.
Posted by: notthisgirl at October 23, 2004 10:16 PM
Due to the subarctic temperatures around here, I'm guessing the story might be related to Iran or North Korea. Is it getting any warmer in here?
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 10:17 PM
In two hours it is Monday in Guam. DOes that count?
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:17 PM
Okay Bill, if people are posting using your name, does that mean we might be warm, and or even hot on some issues?
Posted by: sm at October 23, 2004 10:19 PM
Not sure about Bill, but it means something to me Mikey? I say Bill should spill the beans, don't you? :-)
Posted by: sm at October 23, 2004 10:21 PM
Sm and Luv,
I think Bill had to go to the bathroom or something.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:22 PM
I think getting three women annoyed is not a wise thing.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:23 PM
Iraq was indeed looking for fissionables in Africa and the proof is now clear about WMD etc. Only thing it could be.
Posted by: Just Passing Through at October 23, 2004 10:24 PM
Okay, my theory, based on absolutely nothing at all: the Kerry and Bush campaigns had agreed on groundrules for the debates, because some things couldn't fairly be mentioned without jeopardizing national security. Kerry was a sleaze and broached a topic he had agreed not to touch. Hence the angry and flustered Bush.
Guess #2: Something Sandy Berger related.
Posted by: Deus ex Macrame at October 23, 2004 10:26 PM
After reading Bill's post and Powerline more carefully, I retract my guess - doesn't support the Kerry lying part.
Posted by: Just Passing Through at October 23, 2004 10:27 PM
Sounds pretty warm to me. But how could this effect Kerry? He can just say "I believed blah, blah, before I disbelieved blah, blah."
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:27 PM
I wish to heck I could find something on this Qadaffi/Saddam/WMD connection. It made sense to me.
Monica said on her show that Saddam was heavily funding Qadaffi - and likely that's why he had to give up his ship so to speak.
I also wonder if Qadaffi had anything to do with tipping off the UN Oil-For-Food scandal(?)
Posted by: notthisgirl at October 23, 2004 10:27 PM
Well,theories about Tora Bora and UBL being dead or captured are far-fetched despite enticing references to Josh Mitchell. Tommy Franks has refuted Kerry on the "Bush let him get away" story. Also, if UBL were captured or dead, someone would have leaked it.
So, I think it has to do with Iran or with contacts with foreign governments concerning U.S. policy--a suspect blurring of interests.
Posted by: pinetop at October 23, 2004 10:29 PM
Ya know, maybe that is why Qadaffi threw up his hands so quickly. Maybe he felt that Bush would find out where the WMDs were and go after him.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:30 PM
Bill's watching the world series.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:36 PM
Kim Jong Il is not "ronery," as he and JFnK have been seeing each other since Carter introduced them back in '94.
Posted by: arlo at October 23, 2004 10:36 PM
Ok, maybe we could narrow this down if we all collaborate for a minute...Earlier someone said that this would refute something (related to foreign policy) that Kerry has been hammering. So, why don't we list the things he's been really going after recently? I'll start off...
1)UBL in Tora Bora
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 10:37 PM
I still think it could be Tora Bora. Perhaps OBL is indeed dead, and Senator Kerry knows that because he was on the intelligence committee. In the name of National Security it is not suppose to be made public and Kerry uses that all the time against the President.
That would explain his Mrs. Heniz K response a month or so ago when she said that she wouldn't be surpised if OBL was found before the election...
Okay, I'm most likely cold Bill?
Posted by: sm at October 23, 2004 10:38 PM
Kerry cheated in the first debate over an issue of foreign policy when he said something that the President could not refute for national security reasons. It would have been a bait that would have trapped Bush if he responded, a heads-I-win-tails-you-lose scenario. Could have been ToraBora, or N. Korea, Iran, -type falsehood. That could explain why Bush was so angry. Not any warmer, Bill?
Posted by: Kathy at October 23, 2004 10:40 PM
I'm in the same boat as you--have this inclination to believe it has to do with UBL---but my only concern is that would definitely be something huge--which Bill said its not
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 10:41 PM
UBL is a dead-end.
Just so you know, I'm enjoying your enthusiasm, though. (read: laughing at you) :-)
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 23, 2004 10:42 PM
How could UBL be used against Kerry. He has been saying stupid things since day one and no one has called him on it to a great effect except the Swift Boat Vets and they aren't the Washington Times.
Hey Wait, the Washington Times is owned by a SOuth Korean!!!
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:43 PM
He's trying to see if he can drive all of us nutz by ignoring us while he chuckles madly and kneads his hands together with a look of glee!
Posted by: Bill M at October 23, 2004 10:47 PM
OK no, UBL.
Posted by: Kathy at October 23, 2004 10:47 PM
Ok, It's about Kerry right? Am I getting warm? John Kerry of Viet Nam and geese and wind surfing like the rest of the regular guys right?
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:48 PM
Bill's 10:42PM post -- I was right!
Posted by: Bill M at October 23, 2004 10:48 PM
could it be found in some reference Kerry made durring a debate??
most probably 2nd debate.
or something silly like he really wasn't at the Russian bunker (kinda like Cambodia)
Posted by: peapies at October 23, 2004 10:49 PM
While the So. Korean connection is interesting--what could it be? Bush pretty much nailed Kerry on the multilateral vs. bilateral talks with N. Korea issue
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 10:49 PM
Okay, Bill. I'm a little peeved that you're toying with us, but I've fallen into the trap so I guess I'll play along.
Is it more a foreign policy thing or more a homeland security thing???
sKerry's been spewing a lot of garbage about how Bush is f-ing up our homeland security. Am I getting warm??
Posted by: Totally Sirius at October 23, 2004 10:49 PM
I think someone threatened Kerry with 5 minutes in a room with Hillary.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:50 PM
Ok, Bill this had better be much better than who won American Idol or I am going to be really disappointed.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 10:54 PM
Posted by: Kathy at October 23, 2004 10:54 PM
(I might as well join in the wild speculation)
Use of Intelligence(A) The first I've seen of "sort of exact" numbers on North Korean nukular capabilities
EDWARDS: ....North Korea has moved forward with their nuclear weapons program, gone from one to two nuclear weapons to six to eight nuclear weapons.
Use of Intelligence(B) We missed Osama at Tora Bora. Kerry knows this because ..... the Islamicist pig is living in a EU witless protection program. It is the safest place ObL would be able to find. The EU logic would be the same as their refusal to help uncover Sadaam's mass graves, or their refusal to train Iraqi judges: the US might execute them. It's a good probability the US would try Osama on chages that guarant...uhh involve the death penalty.
Posted by: Va Jim at October 23, 2004 10:54 PM
Kerry's "nuances" about where he was and when don't carry very much weight. No matter how many people point out the truth, he'll still get away with it. On the other hand, something struck me in the first debate about the senator's insistence on bilateral talks with North Korea. He's had his hand in that particular cookie jar for a long time now, and I wonder if maybe the cookie jar is about to bite back.
Posted by: Revive Epic at October 23, 2004 10:55 PM
Kerry passed a bill he personally wrote to send all our flu vacine to Paris and Hanoi.
Posted by: arlo at October 23, 2004 10:57 PM
Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that this is going to be something fairly insignificant and inconsequential? :(
Its not fair! I want an October suprise already!
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 10:57 PM
Let's use some logic here.....
Positive proof of OBL's death would be a BIG story. Bush would love to have it, but probably doesn't. If he did, it would be a prime-time press conference, not a Washington Times piece.
We do know that Kerry got some campaign donations from Kosovo groups that are linked to terrorism - and are supported by Iran. That could well be it - and would fit in with the reports that the blogosphere did a lot of the initial digging on the story.
Tora Bora? Maybe, but it would have to involve something that Bush and Kerry both knew - something along the lines that OBL had already bugged out. I'm not sure we would have pasted Tora Bora as much as we did if that had been the case.
And of course there is always the Oli-for-Bribes scandal. Hits at the U.N. - and it would not surprise me if some of the Democrats were on Saddam's payroll.
Personally, I hope Bill and the rest of the people who DO know can keep it under their hats for another 36 hours. Think about the schedule......
~1200 Saturday: Blogosphere alerted.
Posted by: Mike M. at October 23, 2004 10:59 PM
There is no story. It is just a rumor. Started by the Evil genius (Rove) to keep the dems off balance. They are tracking this down instead of stuffing ballot boxs
Posted by: kerrysux at October 23, 2004 11:00 PM
Something to do with this?
Posted by: ProphetCat at October 23, 2004 11:01 PM
I think it is this girl he was supposed to be having and affair with, who WAS in Kenya.
Well, shes back and she has his baby.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 11:02 PM
They have felons to do that didn't you know? They also have thugs to menace old people at the polls.
Such a classy group these dems. I wanna be just like them when I grow up.
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 11:04 PM
Maybe it's got something to do with Israel.
Posted by: arlo at October 23, 2004 11:04 PM
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 11:07 PM
Okay, a little while ago I went and read debat 2 and copied key insufferable Kerry "I was at that bunker", "I was at Kyoto" blah blahs
One that I copied with keen interest, becuase I remember "powerlines" post "Thank you Nikki" right after the debate had to do with, well here is the question...
"GIBSON: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes from Nikki Washington.
WASHINGTON: Thank you.
Mr. President, my mother and sister traveled abroad this summer, and when they got back they talked to us about how shocked they were at the intensity of aggravation that other countries had with how we handled the Iraq situation.
Diplomacy is obviously something that we really have to really work on.
What is your plan to repair relations with other countries given the current situation?"
now here is Kerry's answe (after Bush),
"KERRY: Nikki, that's a question that's been raised by a lot of people around the country.
Let me address it but also talk about the weapons the president just talked about, because every part of the president's answer just now promises you more of the same over the next four years.
The president stood right here in this hall four years ago, and he was asked a question by somebody just like you, "Under what circumstances would you send people to war?"
And his answer was, "With a viable exit strategy and only with enough forces to get the job done."
He didn't do that. He broke that promise. We didn't have enough forces.
General Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, told him he was going to need several hundred thousand. And guess what? They retired General Shinseki for telling him that.
This president hasn't listened.
I went to meet with the members of the Security Council in the week before we voted. I went to New York. I talked to all of them to find out how serious they were about really holding Saddam Hussein accountable.
I came away convinced that, if we worked at it, if we were ready to work and letting Hans Blix do his job and thoroughly go through the inspections, that if push came to shove, they'd be there with us.
But the president just arbitrarily brought the hammer down and said, "Nope. Sorry, time for diplomacy is over. We're going."
He rushed to war without a plan to win the peace.
Ladies and gentleman, he gave you a speech and told you he'd plan carefully, take every precaution, take our allies with us. He didn't. He broke his word. "
My guess: Have they busted him for the claim that he met with the UN Security Council before the vote authorizing the war.
In the course of looking for his specific quote, I found this story:
Kerry Says He Met With UN Security Council
This story, dated October 23, says in part:
The Washington Times conducted interviews with embassies of countries opposing the war in Iraq and concluded that there had been no meetings between Mr. Kerry and foreign heads of state since the beginning of 2003. After a review of Mr. Kerry's schedule, it was shown he had no opportunities for personal meetings with foreign heads of state, save one on September 24 when the New Zealand Foreign Minister was in Washington. Several foreign leaders including Germany's Schroeder and the Australian Foreign Minister deny any contact with Kerry.
So this shows that the Washington Times has been pursuing this story. Maybe they have on-the-record statements contradicting Kerry.
so I throw it out there, becuase well this is fun.
Anyone think this might be an angle?
Posted by: peapies at October 23, 2004 11:07 PM
Peapies--that might be it. I get the feeling that its something that will be important to us, but will go over the heads of 90% of the public. It will be the type of thing that is news for a day, and then forgotten. Your story fits into that criteria, as well as all the other mentioned earlier (e.g. something Kerry has claimed, related to foreign policy, etc)
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 11:11 PM
Kerry claimed to fly a jet upside down over Israel. It never happened and there's proof.
Posted by: The guy behind you on the escalator at October 23, 2004 11:11 PM
Kerry has always said he met with this person or that leader wants him to win Quote "None of your business."
He is so full of it. But did he do anything that will get him the wedgie he deserves?
Posted by: Mikey at October 23, 2004 11:12 PM
I like the idea that Kerry said something in the debates that he KNEW WASN'T TRUE. Something classified that Kerry knew because he sat on the intelligence committee (not like he ever showed up, but maybe someone else took notes for him).
He slammed Bush with a load of crap in the debate, knowing Bush couldn't refute him for national security reasons. (Hence, Dubya's scowl).
But now, Bush got the info declassified (or it somehow magically got leaked to the Times).
What do y'all think??
Posted by: Totally Sirius at October 23, 2004 11:12 PM
Sirius--I really like that angle too...now if we could just figure out which, of the many, lies it was....>
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 11:17 PM
We just Got a Tip...
...that a major newspaper will break a front-page story Monday morning that could create a serious problem for the Kerry campaign. We don't yet have any details, but it relates to a foreign policy issue, and it will call into question--amazingly enough--John Kerry's truthfulness.
Posted by: corndog at October 23, 2004 11:17 PM
This is ludicrous. For it to be BIG, it needs to be simple and obvious. Something that Joe SixPack can understand while he's driving to work.
Kerry contradicting himself on Tora Bora is OK but not really very big. Security council stuff? Yawn. Prove he lied.
So what is it? OUT WITH IT!!!
Posted by: brianb at October 23, 2004 11:20 PM
I bet the "bunker busting nuke" was a black program. Also, which Korean dictator would feel threatened with the idea of a "bunker busting nuke?"
Posted by: arlo at October 23, 2004 11:22 PM
Although highly unlikely, a return of the 'Global Test' comment with, say, Kerry Campaign or associate assurances to 'some' entities to not use unilateral force would be quite the coup.
Posted by: Vince at October 23, 2004 11:23 PM
For all those new to this thread--the story is not supposed to be "HUGE"--Bill's words were "not huge, but interesting."
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 23, 2004 11:29 PM
Well, how about this speculation? Kerry-Heinz through the Heinz foundation have been donating money to organizations that are fronts for terrorist groups.
Kerry's criticism of Bush on Tora Bora may be undercut by the fact that his wife's foundation's donations have gone to organizations that have protected and shielded Bin Laden.
It is documented that Kerry has received contributions from KLA a listed terrorist organization. And, it is documented that the Heinz Foundation has contributed $8 million to the Tides Foundation which supports the Iraqi Peace Foundation, the NLG, the Democratic Justice Fund and some other very questionable organizations. Big rivers of money flowing into pools dedicated to the protection of Iraqis and the protection of suspicious Muslims. The connection of such groups with efforts to shield Bin Laden could possibly be traced.
Maybe I am overthinking this?
Posted by: pinetop at October 23, 2004 11:29 PM
I happen to think that it was HUGE that he returned from VM, pitched his medals, stabbed his fellow soldiers in the back, sponged offa women...but to no avail.
Posted by: arlo at October 23, 2004 11:31 PM
Why don't they just tell us now? What were the quotes that were erased?
Something that did or did not happen in the past few years....sounds kind of lame.
Posted by: brianb at October 23, 2004 11:32 PM
Wow, I've been quoted!
The Security Council thing isn't a bolt from the blue that will strike Kerry dead and lead to a 50-state sweep.
But if he has lied about meetings with other countries' diplomats, then *they* know he was lying, and it can't do much for Lurch's oh-so-wonderful diplomatic credibility, which his entire foreign policy is based on. Who will negotiate with you if you lie about diplomatic meetings that never took place?
It's reminiscent of Gore's exaggerations, which I think were pretty damaging to him.
Also, *if* this is the story, and they have diplomats from the UN on the record as contradicting it, it would put Kerry in the uncomfortable position of having to call his global-test friends (you know, the ones who are going to send legions of troops to Iraq as soon as he takes the oath) liars.
Posted by: LagunaDave at October 23, 2004 11:32 PM
I Bet I know what it is... it has to do with the kerrys not paying SSI taxes, etc on all of the illegal aliens they have working at her various mansions.
Posted by: BotoxBoy at October 23, 2004 11:33 PM
kerry's first marriage was NEVER ANULLED, so he is a sinner in the eyes of the Vatican.
Posted by: daniel a. at October 23, 2004 11:38 PM
Corndog is right
he did say he participated in the ceasefire!
God, Kerry is Forrest Gump! I bet corndog is right...
and if you re-read debate 2 it is interesting that Kerry said SUPPORTED CLINTONS use of force in Iraq, yet NO support fot Bush 41 and now apparently 43 (even though he voted for it for 43, go figue?)
Posted by: peapies at October 23, 2004 11:38 PM
kerry was working for binh
Posted by: daniel a. at October 23, 2004 11:39 PM
Peapies has an interesting angle. The only trouble is the UN story broke already, so there must be something else for the Monday story.
Seriously I doubt this "story" will move any votes unless it is truly radioactive.
If Kerry and his troops met with the Iranians or the North Koreans and told them not to agree with anything Powell or Dubya has to offer then you have a story...
If Kerry and his troops met with the French and Germans and told them not to cooperate in NATO's role for helping the Iraqi effort then you have an explosive story...
But Bill said the story is not HUGE but interesting, so I am opting for just a headline story that won't chg anything in this race.
Posted by: Michael at October 23, 2004 11:42 PM
kerry campaign officials have been meeting with arafat's people
Posted by: daniel a. at October 23, 2004 11:43 PM
kerry wasn't for it before he was against it;
he was against it before he was for it.
whatver it was....
Posted by: daniel a. at October 23, 2004 11:45 PM
How about something to do with him killing the Vietnam Human rights bill in the senate after it passed in Congress with only one nay?
That has always seemed fishy to me.
Posted by: andrei at October 23, 2004 11:47 PM
Maybe something to do with trade relations with Vietnam? Or normalizing relations with them in 1995?
Posted by: See-Dubya at October 23, 2004 11:48 PM
kerry's late on his loan payments
Posted by: daniel a. at October 23, 2004 11:50 PM
kerry's cancer has spread
Posted by: daniel a. at October 23, 2004 11:50 PM
kerry didn't shoot no goose
Posted by: daniel a. at October 23, 2004 11:51 PM
kerry put a wad on the cards
Posted by: daniel a. at October 23, 2004 11:52 PM
kerry was dishonorably discharged
Posted by: daniel a. at October 23, 2004 11:54 PM
The bunker-busting nuke has been trotted out in the past by lefties, long before the debate. So if it was "secret", it was already an open one.
Even if that were the story, I don't think it would impugn Kerry's honesty. It would be bad judgement, but not dishonest.
Posted by: LagunaDave at October 23, 2004 11:54 PM
kerry is very ronery
Posted by: daniel a. at October 23, 2004 11:55 PM
Given the MSM's coddling of Kerry, the story will have to be something truly objectionable. Bill! Is it a dead girl, a live boy, or a farm animal?
Posted by: DC Republican at October 23, 2004 11:56 PM
kerry cousin forbes got an oil voucher from saddam
Posted by: daniel a. at October 23, 2004 11:58 PM
theresa was big depositor with BCCI
Posted by: daniel a. at October 23, 2004 11:59 PM
kerry stole w's debate manual
Posted by: daniel a. at October 24, 2004 12:00 AM
I just took a peek at other blogs (powerline, lgf, hedgehog, redstate,polipundit) and I'm beginning to think there is NO STORY, and this was just a hoax email sent around to folks who host well-known conservative web-logs.
Posted by: Totally Sirius at October 24, 2004 12:00 AM
theresa and soros manipulated the share price of sinclair to force them to abandon their broadcast of stolen valor
Posted by: daniel a. at October 24, 2004 12:03 AM
I just took a peek at other blogs (powerline, lgf, hedgehog, redstate,polipundit) and I'm beginning to think there is NO STORY, and this was just a hoax email sent around to folks who host well-known conservative web-logs.
Yeah, except the blogs are in on the story. Try again, Inspector.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 24, 2004 12:05 AM
Alright, you got me. The story is about me and what I did in a Boston bar after consuming too much gin and raisins, white raisins. But this election is not about me. It's about John Kerry. Now go watch STOLEN HONOR online for FREE.
Teresa Heinz no more Kerry
Posted by: Teresa at October 24, 2004 12:06 AM
Posted by: Jack at October 24, 2004 12:10 AM
I think it's Tora Bora, but not the thing about the Kerry quote supporting it. I think it more likely that it is that Kerry has knowledge of the events that took place at Tora Bora that show his attacks on Bush to be false. He may have gained that knowledge from the Senate Intelligence Committee or some other source. My second guess would be something to do with Iran or N. Korea.
Posted by: twalsh at October 24, 2004 12:19 AM
The source is John Loftus (FOXNEWS - Expert former Ast US Atty). Story is nuclear conspiracy involving Iraq, Libya, and North Korea using tech of Dr. A. Q. Kahn tech. Supposedly Saddam shifted his nuke building effort to tunnels of Libya and was close to making one.
North Korea was "shitting bricks" when it became apparent the US was going to go into Iraq because they kept detailed docs like the Nazis.
Gahdfay supposedly got a new case of religion and turned in all his stuff when he saw Saddam dragged from his rat hole.
See this link on our site for ref to news articles on this.
This was the strategic reason for going to Iraq when we did. Also this gave us a foothold in the middle between Syria and Iran.
BTW there is a companion thread about most of the WMD went into Syria before the war. Some of the chem weapons were what the idiots were going to use in Amman Jordan.
Also while were at it, the Iranian people would overthrow their Islamofascist government given half a chance. I would be willing to bet with have special ops folks on the ground there now re the recent increase in student unrest.
See this link re what the Blogosphere can do support this movement from the safety of their keyboards:
Ron Wright, Moderator
Posted by: Ron Wright at October 24, 2004 12:20 AM
I go sit in the spa for an hour and come back to find you have laughed at me Bill? :(
"(read: laughing at you) :-)"
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 12:26 AM
Sorry must have had a typo in my link above to the conspiracy theory.
Also while on our site check out our WMD forums where this link will take you for many other stories including the WMD going into Syria.
Here's the full URL link and I will attempt to do a hot link again:
Ron Wright, Moderator
Posted by: Ron Wright at October 24, 2004 12:27 AM
"Yeah, except the blogs are in on the story. Try again, Inspector."
Damn, Bill!!! I was hoping to insult you into revealing something!!!!
Oh well, patience is a virtue....
Posted by: Totally Sirius at October 24, 2004 12:30 AM
"The Washington Times conducted interviews with embassies of countries opposing the war in Iraq and concluded that there had been no meetings between Mr. Kerry and foreign heads of state since the beginning of 2003. After a review of Mr. Kerry's schedule, it was shown he had no opportunities for personal meetings with foreign heads of state, save one on September 24 when the New Zealand Foreign Minister was in Washington. Several foreign leaders including Germany's Schroeder and the Australian Foreign Minister deny any contact with Kerry."
Posted by: corndog at October 24, 2004 12:30 AM
Okay Bill, gone an hour and NO additional hints. Where is Mikey and her PMS?
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 12:39 AM
Kerry negotiated with, or attempted to negotiate with, the Iraqi government before the war. Shades of Viet Nam....
Posted by: Al Superczynski at October 24, 2004 12:49 AM
The story: Conservative bloggers experience huge spike in traffic due to rumor! And whatever it is, it won't be half as long as this comment box when written. ha ha ha
Posted by: Dan at October 24, 2004 12:52 AM
Not a huge spike in traffic, mostly comments.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 24, 2004 12:53 AM
Fox is reporting 6 Tunisian doctors have arrived to treat arafat. he might finnaly be on his last legs!
Posted by: AMJoe at October 24, 2004 12:53 AM
Can't be "meeting with the enemy" because he would just be able to deny that. Like he was "meeting with the enemy, before he meeting against them?"
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 12:55 AM
Kerry secretly smuggled one of the limited flu vaccines to Yassir Arafat, as a thank you for his endorsement. Must be it :P
Posted by: neocon at October 24, 2004 12:56 AM
Does that mean Blogs CONTRIBUTED to the story? Sorta Rathergate-ISH like???
Posted by: peapies at October 24, 2004 12:57 AM
Wait a second...we haven't heard a lot about rathergate OR Bill Burkett, you know the guy that called Joe Lockhart and Max Cleland.........but it is foreign policy...sorry for the tangent... it is that is was Krempasky that posted on redstate and I have an email from rathergate, so well I through it out again
Posted by: peapies at October 24, 2004 01:07 AM
Okay, I give up. I will wait till Monday...
*sigh* I'm not very good at waiting...
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 01:13 AM
Bill quotes from this thread: (my comments parsed)
"It is about something that happened or did not happen in the past few years." (not exactly recent)
"mistakes were made, and other mistakes weren't" (an upset in a Dem tenet)
"I think it's a very important bit of info, but I also think that cheating in a debate is important, so what do I know, right?" (not a death blow, but rather a destabilizer)
"the blogs are in on the story." (mostly ignored in the MSM)
There are topics that can be ruled out with this info, but many that fit. I lean towards what was whispered into Bush's ear on 9/11.
Posted by: Devnulled at October 24, 2004 01:24 AM
OK, since I am a news junkie and an avid blog watcher I don't think I'll sleep until this breaks.
It better be worth it.
And, if you can't tell us what it is, can you tell us what it is not?
Posted by: punk boy at October 24, 2004 01:26 AM
I would like to know exactly how hard this kicks Kerry in the nads! Will this only make him cringe, or will this cause him to retaliate?
Plus, I think Bill has hit the hay.
Posted by: Make War, Not Appease at October 24, 2004 01:32 AM
I think everyone has already listed what it is not.
Posted by: neocon at October 24, 2004 01:33 AM
True, I think we'e eliminated just about everything it is not. I'm just anxious. But, whatever it is I hope it hits Kerry hard enough to throw him off balance if only temporarily.
Posted by: Make War, Not Appease at October 24, 2004 01:38 AM
I get this weird sense that somebody in a foreign government has conclusive proof that Kerry urged France, Germany and other allies not to participate in the coalition.
If Kerry was working actively to compel "traditional allies" not to back the War, that is a helluva story that could sink him.
If he prevented us from getting more help, he has American blood on his hands .... again.
Posted by: Kate at October 24, 2004 01:41 AM
Well, Bill, come on, a little spike for you would be like an instalance to me - and my clicks from TB's to the Kyoto angle have been pretty significant. Though I'm far from convinced that's it - it is yet another significant case of Kerry having it both ways that will go unreported by the MSM.
Posted by: Dan at October 24, 2004 01:43 AM
uh ... lanche, instalanche - sorry my French sucks!
Posted by: Dan at October 24, 2004 01:45 AM
I'm still convinced Bill is sawing logs. Prove me wrong, Bill...I dare you!
Posted by: Make War, Not Appease at October 24, 2004 01:47 AM
OK what it is not
I don't think it has anything to do with iraq - except to say there might be evidence of WMD in classified meetings, trade with syrians or something along that line
nothing on debates really
So where does that leave it.
1: foreign poilicy
My guess is money/donations
Kerry is a traditional political money sump and takes money fromanyone and everyone (he was even implicated in an FBI investigation in the 80s for taking bribes from the chinese)
we know he has recieved money from the mullah supported groups in the US
He can't trackall his donations and no one seems to be doing a good vetting process for him so I would guess that he has recieved some money from a foreign source recently. a source of questionable nature.
a french group?
couldit be he has recieved money from the oil for food scandal???
Posted by: punk boy at October 24, 2004 01:48 AM
I think the best question that has yet to be asked is this...WILL THIS HELP OR BENEFIT W IN ANY WAY?
Posted by: Make War, Not Appease at October 24, 2004 01:50 AM
punk boy brings in a new good angle-
there have been lots of unnoticed money donations this election cycle that have gone unnoticed by the MSM, as shocking as that sounds.
We're they from Koreans? I think so
but good angle punky brewster boy
Posted by: peapies at October 24, 2004 01:53 AM
The blogospherics of this announcement are interesting. Just look at all the speculation and brainstorming it's generated. This thread is a fascinating little sluicebox for nuggets among all the Kerry dirt and things are coming up that I hadn't heard of before.
For example, Red State links to a Kos commenter who said, "I wonder if it's about Kerry's European divorce?" If that's true, I never even knew Kerry had a European divorce (whatever that is--I assume it's just a divorce decree entered in a country in Europe.) Not a big deal, of course, but it's interesting to see people straining to guess the prize here.
On this thread, everyone's like "wait...didn't Kerry say something good about Bunker Busters once in my hometown paper? No, no...", trying to put two and two together. It will be interesting to see if anything useful appears between now and Sunday midnight when the story breaks. If not it's still a great litany of Kerry's problems and the Kossacks are doing half the work in compiling it. I smell evil genius...must be all Karl Rove's doing.
Posted by: See Dubya at October 24, 2004 02:02 AM
Posted by: peapies at October 24, 2004 02:13 AM
I hope the big scoop is not that Kerry was making a false claim about the supposed "failure to get OBL" when Tora Bora was bombed, unless there's absolute, concrete proof that OBL a) was indeed not there; and, b) the Bush administration knew OBL was not there; and, c) Kerry was aware of "a" and "b".
My reasoning is: unless this info has been de-classified, neither Kerry nor Bush nor anybody else in Washington officialdom will be able to verify whether or not the story is true. Kerry, for instance, will simply say he "can't get into that" or "won't comment on classified information". Then the story will die.
And, I must say, I find it a bit of a stretch that John Kerry would knowingly make a wrongful accusation of this type. I'm not doubtful because I possess a high opinion of Kerry's integrity, rather, I'm doubtful because Kerry surely would realize that, in making such an accusation, he would be rather recklessly exposing himself to a potentially damaging, and substantive counterattack. After all, it is the defense and national security apparatus -- not the Kerry campaign -- that determines which information needs to be classified and which does not. What if the information about OBL's flight to Baluchistan (or wherever) were revealed, or leaked? Surely Kerry would realize making such a reckless, misleading accusation in the public forum of a televised debate would leave him open to charges of lying, or hypocrisy (wouldn't he?).
Furthermore, isn't one likely attribute of such a story going to be the possibly uncomfortable light it shines on administration policy? If OBL is indeed residing in Western Pakistan and we've been aware of this fact for several years, why haven't we taken him? Yes, I'm aware there may be reasonable strategic reasons why in such a case we've yet to take him, or pehaps significant difficulties in doing so, but none of these reasons or difficulties are something the administration is likely to want to publicly discuss one week before election day.
At any rate, maybe I've missed something obvious in my reasoning, but, the Tora Bora theory doesn't smell to me like the big, damaging anti-Kerry story of my dreams.
If it's indeed foreign policy-related, my hope would be for something involving the French (or Germans), or the UN, or the Isrealis and Palestinians.
Posted by: P.B. Almeida at October 24, 2004 02:15 AM
Tora Bora is out: if it were classified info, no one could confirm it. So unless "Tora Bora" was specifically mentioned in the agreed debate rules, forget it. Weren't they made public somewhere?
Yellowcake is too obscure. We've always known the Brits got the intelligence from the French. Other confirmation of Iraq trying to buy yellowcake wouldn't impinge Kerry's truthfulness, since again it would be classified and not confirmable.
Kerry not being at the ceasefire signing is already known, not a big story at all . . . Page A-19, 16 point header.
Kerry's people meeting with Aragat or Iran wouldn't be about his truthfulness, although it could be big. Bill knows enough to mention truthfulness, so that ain't it, either.
Perhaps something Kerry wrote to someone about his postions . . . "I know it's BS, but I have to say it for political gain" or some such. Is he dumb enough to have done that?
I give up!!!!
Posted by: Adjoran at October 24, 2004 02:30 AM
My own guess is--besides the Vietnam stuff above--is that it's something to do with Kerry's Cayman offshore banking. Hugh Hewitt had blogged a little about that a while back; maybe Drudge linked it, too. The Globe had the documents, I think. It was an early 90's story, originally,but
There's also the extremely frickin' obvious fact that Kerry authorized Bush I's pre-emptive, unilateral invasion of Panama in 1989, so why the hell is he kicking about Iraq now?
Posted by: See-Dubya at October 24, 2004 02:31 AM
OBL contrary to what Sen Kerry is saying is really strategically not relevant now. If he's not dead (no videos/tapes recently) is is operationally cut off and is not able to issue commands.
OBL and aQ are just the visual manifestations of the bigger movement. Here's an excerpt of a paper I'm working on:
The enemy is driven by the ideology of radical Islamic extremism or as some historians have termed Islamofascism. While Osama Bin Laden and aQ are the usual visual manifestations, the enemy is actually a confederation of terrorists groups that extends from Northwest Africa eastward to the Philippines. This is the former expanse of the Islamic Empire of the 12th Century. These are similar to the religious/social cults of the West. A common bond of Islamofascism unites these groups. Recent migrations have occurred into Northern Europe, Canada, the U.S., and some Nordic countries.
My moneys on where the WMD went and John Loftus's conspiracy theory I mentioned in the post earlier.
Ron Wright, Moderator
Posted by: Ron Wright at October 24, 2004 02:34 AM
How about this ? Kerry knows that there ARE wmd, but that they were taken out of Iraq before the war, and that Bush and Kerry BOTH know where they are located in Syria and Lebanon.
Posted by: Shai at October 24, 2004 02:36 AM
The setup before the fall?
Kerry record in Senate put premium on probes Washington Times Story 10/24
I never knew how much of a news junkie I was until tonight.
Posted by: Devnulled at October 24, 2004 02:52 AM
Senator ZarKerry is going to loose regardless of what happens on monday.
Is it just me or was Scarborough Country wonderful TV last night. The dems are imploding.
Posted by: Bryan at October 24, 2004 02:53 AM
It's amazing what an extra letter will do to a post.
Posted by: Bryan at October 24, 2004 02:55 AM
as per drudge, and sicne I am on the west coast just watched SNL ashleeeee Simpson first lyp synch and no run off....
waiting for #2
Posted by: peapies at October 24, 2004 03:14 AM
my bet is it has to do with a trip abroad or visit with foreign dignataries or meeting with leaders kerry claims to have made and help inform his policy position but didn't actually make it.
i think he said he went to afghanistan in one of the debates, any confirmation on that?
Posted by: anon at October 24, 2004 03:34 AM
I figure it will deal with one of the following. There is credible evidence supporting every one of these...
1. Kerry received a dishonorable discharge.
2. Kerry's campaign is receiving donations from terrorist fundraiser(s). In particular, Florin Krasniki...who supports the KLA.
3. Kerry's campaign is receiving large amounts of money from a pro-Iranian mullah group...on the list, Hassan Nemazee. This would prove greatly suspicious...as to why Kerry would want to give nuclear fuel to Iran.
Posted by: veritas at October 24, 2004 05:40 AM
"I went to meet with the members of the Security Council in the week before we voted. I went to New York. I talked to all of them to find out how serious they were about really holding Saddam Hussein accountable.
Bet on that.. only a more detailed investigation.
Posted by: KnightHawk at October 24, 2004 06:16 AM
sm- Sorry had to get some sleep. Fatigue and water weight gain are not pretty!
As I said before - deatails smetails, Follow the dinero.
Zakerry (I really like that) and is significant other (no, not his ego) are awash in money. Terroriza, who doesn't doesn't have a job, put the money that she got by sleeping with a guy (maybe she DOES have a job) into every crack-pot cause she can think of.
I'd like to see them both sink. ITS audit anybody?
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 08:06 AM
GACK! I meant IRS audit or, maybe she is here illegally! INS?
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 08:07 AM
Don't forget this quote from the Redstate folks:
"Call it another chapter in the story of John Kerry making stuff up."
Most likely something he said he did, but didn't do.
Posted by: dmo at October 24, 2004 09:54 AM
Don't forget this tip too!
It's something that the Kerry campaign will be forced to address regarding a previous criticism of Bush's foreign policy
Therefore, I doubt it has to do with the funneling of $ into Kerry's campaign.
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 10:21 AM
So I took Bill's (or maybe Not Bill's) hint about nipples cutting glass and paid Protien Wsdom a visit. It was more than worth it but mind, the drink alert is in effect!
Posted by: Retread at October 24, 2004 10:23 AM
But Zakerry (love this!) is always backing away from something that he says. Everyone with an IQ above that of a rhutabaga knows he's a phony, liar. What else is new?
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 10:24 AM
It's about Kerry making stuff up? Maybe he pretended to be a full-time US Senator, while he was really moonlighting as Lurch on the Addams Family.
Posted by: Tony Iovino at October 24, 2004 10:42 AM
I know... I know... Kerry piloted one of the planes that hit the World Trade Center... Wait, that doesn't work, does it...
Posted by: Paranoid at October 24, 2004 11:09 AM
I think your onto it. I read that article by the times this a.m. and believe it is a set up. My take is the following:
Kerry knew something due to his position on intelligence committee(s), something big, and accused Bush knowing that it wasn't true.
Posted by: Jeff1999 at October 24, 2004 11:15 AM
Look for news to come out tonight that Kerry has been secretly negotiating with foreign leaders, including Chirac, Shroeder, and Putin. An agreement has been reached that would provide in the neighborhood of 50,000 UN troops for various activities in Iraq in exchange for a guaranteed support of Kyoto and other US concessions.
This is contingent upon a Kerry victory.
Kerry will defend this breach in protocol by saying that Iraq is such a mess that it is necessary for him to pave the way to hit the ground running once he is elected.
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 11:24 AM
I don't know what Craig is talking about, but he's arctic cold.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 24, 2004 11:26 AM
P.S. This was posted on Free Republic. Have no idea whether true or not or what the source is.
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 11:27 AM
Link to the Free Republic post.
Thanks for discounting this Bill. That's why I posted it.
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 11:31 AM
Thread has been pulled at Free Republic already. It was posted by someone who'd signed up today.
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 11:32 AM
But am I "arctic cold" Bill, am I?
Posted by: Jeff1999 at October 24, 2004 11:33 AM
I've been playing "ketch up" this morning...but have seen NO other hints from Bill?
Hey Bill, another hint...PLEASSSSSE.
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 11:37 AM
I'm afraid we're going to be playing this game all day and night. No one is going to spill the beans early, and I don't blame them. Don't want to give Kerry's team time to figure out how to defend it.
Posted by: dmo at October 24, 2004 11:40 AM
Oh sure dmo, throw cold water over all of us. :-)
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 11:43 AM
It will break in a major newspaper (not considered conservative)....all about Kerry
Posted by: traderrob6 at October 24, 2004 11:44 AM
Nannygate? Didn't pay SS taxes?
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 11:49 AM
Couldn't be that Craig since it isn't a foreign policy issue? Also, if it were that it wouldn't have anything to do with W, would it?
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 11:59 AM
Is this story likely to have an effect on the election? The thought of ZaKerry and Terroriza in the White House leave a sick feeling in my stomach.
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 12:03 PM
Hey ladies! Hi Guys!
Can you imagine what the White HOuse would look like with those two creeps in ite? I shudder to think how Terroriza would treat the staff and Gawd frobid, you would have to be on someone's hit list to have to be assigned to be her security. She'd probablyl use you like she uses all of her servants. You know, the ones she gained from marrying into wealth and not through anything but what we will not mention in polite company here.
Tell me, Why does she keep her dead husband's name? Isn't she Just T Kerry? Maybe she wants to remind Zakerry where his meal ticket is coming form.
Think about it guys. Every house, every car, every boat, every plane that that creep walks on is his wife's. Not because she worked 24/7 to get it but because she married a rich guy and he died. Now Zakerry is her prostitute. That is probably why he doesn't tell her to STFU.
Betcha this has to do with her money....
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 12:13 PM
If it has to do with her $$, then how can it be related to a Kerry criticism of Bush's foreign policy--doesn't make sense to me :(
I sure hope this story pans out. I've already told several Kerry supporters to watch out for the WaTimes on Monday.
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 12:20 PM
TKerry's survivor money goes to many foreign causes. She is not a native born American and has been a socialist all of her life. SHe got a hold of all of this money and, with her good friend George Sorryass, has been funneling her dead husband's money into all sorts of causes.
Why do you think that she is hiding the rest of her tax returns? Because you see Ms. 12.5% income tax paid (I am in 35% bracket myself and this chaps my undies!)will have to show where her money is going and the American people would be very angry to see that her causes are anti-American.
Follow the money.
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 12:31 PM
I think the RedState writer who referred to Kerry's "European divorce" misinterpreted what the Kos commenter said:
the old kerry divorce story that broke overseas and not here... some scandal of some type.
The Kos commenter didn't say that Kerry got divorced in Europe, just that the story was covered there. Since the story supposedly has to do with foreign policy, I doubt it's that.
Posted by: Joshua at October 24, 2004 12:40 PM
I understand that Terroriza's $ could be going to shady organizations and governments, but I don't see how this relates to a foreign policy CRITICISM against Bush. If I'm missing something, please fill me in.
By the way, I LOVE your take on people's names. George Sorryass is great!
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 12:48 PM
KnightHawk is probably the closest. Though the press should run with the three that I've stated as well. There will be some other breakings news soon...two things...at least a little bird tells me this.
Posted by: veritas at October 24, 2004 12:54 PM
Just a quick comment about Terroriza's $, don't forget that her LATE husband was a Republican.
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 01:05 PM
FOXNews is reporting that Saddam may have tried to buy votes on the UN Security council. Therefore....my bet is the story is the Wash Times is going to reveal memos naming names of bribed government officials in France, Germany and/or Russia. This covers both Kerry's foreign policy criticisms of Bush and casts doubt on Kerry's ability to garner support of "allies" who aren't playing both sides and taking MASSIVE bribes. If correct, do I win a prize? Autographed picture maybe?
Posted by: AMJoe at October 24, 2004 01:17 PM
also, did i beat Drudge to it? :)
Posted by: AMJoe at October 24, 2004 01:19 PM
Doesn't fit the criteria - it has to do with Kerrys integrity as related to foreign policy. At least that is the clues known so far.
Posted by: corndog at October 24, 2004 01:45 PM
Sm: It is what his wife did with his money AFTER he died that matters. She took HIS money and turned back into heself (She was born in Mozambique-yes Marxist Monzambique) ZaKerry went to Swiss boarding schools.
How in the world can those two relate to 99% of the American people?
I work many hours-vertically-to earn my money. How can those two who got their money horizontally give me advice on how I should spend the money I earned?
Then they have the nerve to hide 1/2 of their taxes and then pay ONLY 12.5% How in the name of Sangre de Cristo can they even stand on the same platform as someone who works hard and makes 200K (the usual small business owner) and say that this person needs to pay more!
What arrogance, What ignorance! Geez!
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 01:46 PM
I don't think that this relevation will get much more than a hohum. It is par for the course for Zakerry. Unless there is a check with his name on it, it will have very little impact.
The MSM will say it is only about sex.
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 01:49 PM
Kerry accused Bush of being too close with the Saudis- Kerry took large sums of money from the Saudi royal family
Kerry accused Bush of ignoring Iran and letting the Europeans do the negotiating over the nuclear power plant- Kerry knows the Bush admin had secret negotiations with the mullahs
Kerry has denounced Bush for not having unilateral negotiations with the North Koreans- Kerry knows the Bush admin had secret negotiations with the North Koreans
The Tora Bora thing where Kerry accused Bush of letting Osama escape- Kerry was told long ago Osama was never in Tora Bora
Kerry says he will get more allies to join us in Iraq- France, Germany and Russia have all told Bush they will send troops to Iraq once the US election is over
Kerry claimed to fly a jet over Israel but never did-
Posted by: jimboster at October 24, 2004 01:57 PM
It's not huge, but it's interesting.
i'll stand by my guess anyway. after all, it depends on what the meaning of the word "integrity" is. :)
Posted by: AMJoe at October 24, 2004 02:05 PM
All of that is true, but we know that ZaKerry is a total bag of wind.
How can anything that he says be used against him now.
He and his wife are like the crazy cousins that we don't mention or invite to polite parties cause they get drunk and embarass the rest of us.
I'll bet that is how the "normal" Dem is looking at these two loonies right now.
It must be gaspingly embarassing to tell anyone you support Senator Windbag and his Corella Devile his wife.
TK: Take a shower, comb your hair and for Gawd's sake stand up straight!
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 02:08 PM
I agree with Veritas; it will probably be that kerry actually received a less than honorable discharge, (possibly even dishonorable) due to his anti-war activities while still a reserve Navy officer. He would have had that discharge later purged and rescinded when Carter was President as Carter pardoned the draft-dodgers and anti-war activists.
Posted by: skatz51 at October 24, 2004 02:13 PM
Oh, Now THAT would hurt Mr. John "Reporting for Duty" Zakerry
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 02:28 PM
Mikey: That was my point exactly. It is what sKerry & Company are doing with the late Republican's money.
I no longer work at my past "PROFESSIONAL" job, but I do donate a great deal of my time to children and senior's. But, let it be said that I also work(ed) in a vertically position. :-)
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 02:34 PM
Ya know, If this is true, then it makes sense that he is arrogant enoughb to think that this wouold not comeout.
But then look at his past. 20 years of unchallenged phoning in as a Senator (Shme on you Massachusetts) has made him feel that he is immune to any kind of critcism,
He is arrogant enough to think that he can talk his way out of anything because he is so glib (Ted Bundy thought the same way) and "sharp" that he can baffle everyone with his eloqution lessons.
That would be great to see. But then they would have to have rock hard evidence of this so that even the dumbest democrat could see it.
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 02:34 PM
Working with kids and seniors is the most respectable thing that one can do. You honor the father and the mother and help the little ones to succeed.
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 02:36 PM
spell check, typo check...:(
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 02:37 PM
The Times is doing a "set up piece" today that talks about Kerry's probes, and his intelligence committee role.
It will be:
Kerry claimed Bush failed in (fill in blank), all the while Kerry had inside info that (blank) was not true. And I suspect the "blank" will be big.
Posted by: Jeff1999 at October 24, 2004 02:37 PM
Posted by: corndog at October 24, 2004 02:38 PM
Mikey, that still doesn't explain how it could be a foreign policy issue? Addtionally, it doesn't have anything to do with previous criticism of Bush's foreign policy.
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 02:39 PM
is that too general to give me a prize, if I'm right?
Posted by: Jeff1999 at October 24, 2004 02:44 PM
Yeah, You're right.
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 02:55 PM
not huge, but rather significant
Posted by: laurence at October 24, 2004 02:57 PM
That is hilarious!
I'll bet that Bush has UBLs head and will present it John the Baptist style.
Gotta read that again. It was great!
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 02:59 PM
..."The senator and his campaign have since decided not to do the interview, though his advisers say Kerry would have strong and compelling answers."...Woodward article
John Zakerry,"Yeah, and I would not only beat you up, but also I would beat up your whole family if I didn't have something else on my schedule at that time. But you had better be afraid because I have a plan, oh and I was in VietNam."
HoHoHO that is so John Zakerry! I
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 03:03 PM
dishonorable discharge has nothing to do with foreign policy though. seems we're all grasping at straws :)
Posted by: AMJoe at October 24, 2004 03:15 PM
It could have come out of a foreign policy issue such as meeting with the Communists in Paris.
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 03:19 PM
seems like the swifties and about to release something big too. Maybe a whole bag of October surprises to come our way.
Posted by: mr_lil_rhody at October 24, 2004 03:34 PM
How many illegal aliens does it take to harvest enough tomatoes to produce one bottle of ketchup?
Posted by: The Oracle at October 24, 2004 03:42 PM
Since Josh Marshall's favorite theme is "revisionism", relating to the Bush admin, I'm thinking this has to do with sKerry's own dabbling in revisionism, regarding his own position (?)as opposed to Bush's, on matters of foreign policy. Since I have yet to hear a coherent, concrete policy on foreign relations from said Senator ( other than sucking up to the French) I couldn't begin to offer up a guess as to the subject of the revisionism. Anyway, it would fit into "interesting, but not huge". I mean, who will bat an eyelash at one more contradiction from sKerry? I HOPE, whatever it is, it does do some damage, but I'm not holding my breath.
Posted by: Pam at October 24, 2004 04:01 PM
I'm sticking with my farm animals theory :)
Posted by: DC Republican at October 24, 2004 04:08 PM
He is married to a farm animal.
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 04:36 PM
Read the Swifties site. Very interesting, Could it be a double whammy for this creep?
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 04:37 PM
Liberating Iraq joins the speculation fray.
Posted by: Patrick at October 24, 2004 04:38 PM
What I don't get iS those people who are not voting for Kerry but against Bush.
So they would sell out their country to this creep because they hate Bush?
Seems that these people need to get their souls adjusted.
Posted by: Mikey at October 24, 2004 04:45 PM
This is a sad scam that will do nothing by some VERY VERY bored left wing bloggers. I guess they got tried of never being read. If anything they have only proven how well connected and informed and excited the right is!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: This is a jke at October 24, 2004 04:46 PM
This is a sad scam that will do nothing by some VERY VERY bored left wing bloggers. I guess they got tried of never being read. If anything they have only proven how well connected and informed and excited the right is!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: this is a joke at October 24, 2004 04:47 PM
Have you all solved the puzzle--saved the world yet?
I am thinking it is swifty related, only because Krempasky referenced it on red state...
Krempasky is rathergate...which ties powerline
and Krempasky issued another cryptic alert a few weeks back that turned out to be the swift vet commercial featuring Bud so and so (the bad ass pow) AND
the above reference to the swifties site
so what would all these have in common in uncovering a Kerry fabrication?
Posted by: peapies at October 24, 2004 04:50 PM
Kerry put poison in those capsules
Posted by: Mr. Gower's son at October 24, 2004 05:00 PM
This is a sad scam that will do nothing by some VERY VERY bored left wing bloggers. I guess they got tried of never being read. If anything they have only proven how well connected, informed and excited the right is!!!!!!!!!!!!! These losers spent hours setting up a fake Washington Times page,
Posted by: milton at October 24, 2004 05:09 PM
the swifties aren't finished yet.....they've saved their best for last. I think they've got info that Kerry wasn't honorably discharged, but had a medical discharge due to sleep disorders.
Imagine if his aids need to wake him up in the middle of the night in a national crisis? They won't know if he's awake or still sleeping. He could be calling the shots in his sleep! On other nights he could sleep walk right into the oval office!! Skerry!!!
Posted by: mr_lil_rhody at October 24, 2004 05:13 PM
So, is the big story that Kerry ran away from his promised interview with Woodward?
Posted by: Dave at October 24, 2004 05:21 PM
milton is a troll trying to get someone, anyone to visit his pathetic and lonely blog.don't waste your time
Posted by: redwood at October 24, 2004 06:17 PM
I don't think anyone is going to swing their vote based on a cancelled interview, I don't even think the MSM will care about that one, even if the blogs are raging about it.
I do agee with whoever said this has to be simple enough for people to understand.
If the blogs are involved, it also has to be something bloggers have access to, so it can't be something that is classified.
If it is another Kerry said this, but he said something else 5 years ago stuff, I don't see it being a big deal either.
I am thinking Kerry and something with the UN sounds good, except that the MSM and most people outside the conservative sphere don't seem to care much about Oil for Food.
I give up, and will just have to wait until tomorrow.
Posted by: Just Me at October 24, 2004 06:25 PM
Methinks Milton lacks a sense of humor about the satire page at Protein Wisdom.
My. There are some dumb people on this planet.
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 24, 2004 08:12 PM
Well so far I see there is a breaking story about Abu Graib again. Don't see how that helps Bush.
Posted by: dave at October 24, 2004 08:26 PM
I think I've finally figured it out. Kerry had his way with a water buffalo in Vietnam.
Posted by: DC Republican at October 24, 2004 08:29 PM
OK, another county heard from, I think I have it. First, lets look at the clues:
So how's this: Kerry spoke to the UAW workers talking about his love of big cars and SUV's earlier this year (I think that was the time frame) and then while he is complaining about Republicans driving around in big SUV's and complaining about how Bush has no energy policy is asked about the SUV's he has to which he states "those aren't MINE, they belong to the FAMILY".
So could we have someone getting the DMV records showing that those SUV's actually do belong to Kerry????
It's not huge, it is interesting, it deals with foreign policy issues since he was complaining about a lack of an energy policy, and it would be catching him in a big fat lie??
My wife thinks I'm crazy, but I think this may be it.
Posted by: Quist at October 24, 2004 08:59 PM
UPDATE, Sunday, 8:43 PM EDT: I am informed that Drudge may break the story Sunday night. Also,
The story, written by author and investigative journalist Joel Mowbray, will run on page 1, above the fold, in tomorrow's Washington Post. Joel will also be on Fox & Friends tomorrow morning to talk about the story. (7:30EST)
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 08:59 PM
Joel Mowbray is a conservative writer on foreign policy and defense issues.
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 09:02 PM
It will be in the Washington Times -- Not the Post --- error in the above.
Posted by: Bill M at October 24, 2004 09:10 PM
Washington Post or Times? Thought it was the Times..
Posted by: dmo at October 24, 2004 09:11 PM
Hi Bill and dmo,
Not my info. Hoping Bill from InDC will clarify. It's past 9:00EST. Can't the story be broken now?
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 09:14 PM
Little Green Footballs says it is the Post not the Times, according to info they received from Redstate's Krempasky.
"More on that breaking story about John Kerry; according to Mike Krempasky of Redstate, the story is written by Joel Mowbray and will run on page one of tomorrow’s Washington Post (not the Times)—and the word is that Drudge is going to break it tonight.
Joel Mowbray will be on Fox and Friends tomorrow and will also be blogging at Redstate."
Posted by: Totally Sirius at October 24, 2004 09:17 PM
Crap. Scratch that. LGF just posted a correction...
Posted by: Totally Sirius at October 24, 2004 09:19 PM
With Joel Mowbray, my bet is something with the Saudis.
This fits the picture - Kerry been critical on Bush on the whole Saudi thing, but wouldn't it be an irony that Kerry is just as close to the Royal Family as the Bushies ever was?
Maybe the Saudis are leaking some Kerry dirt...hmmmmmmmm
Posted by: Michael at October 24, 2004 09:20 PM
It's ZarKerry not Zakerry.
Posted by: Bryan at October 24, 2004 09:22 PM
Looks like the NYT and the WaPost are gonna be publishing some damaging stories to Bush tomorrow (see Drudge). Is the WaTimes story significant enough to overshadow these other stories?
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 09:43 PM
the NYT story is the same ole crap - We didn't guard the ammo dump, the high explosives on and on and now the terrorists have the stuff and using 'em to kill our boys...on and on and on and on...it would be a real story if the terrorists sneak one into the NYT HQ in NYC and blow 'em up...
The Abu Ghraib story - MSM should have held that thing up and drop the bomb in August and continue their hits...timing is everything..unless they have stuff like Rummy, Cheney or Bush order the soldiers to do what they do...this story will go nowhere...oh, yea, there are videos of the torture you know...even with pictures, I doubt there is anything big enough to chg the dynamics of this race...
Posted by: Michael at October 24, 2004 09:52 PM
I must say, I wish the fat girl I had relations with in high school, could have kept a secret like Bill is with this story.
Posted by: Bryan at October 24, 2004 09:58 PM
Both of the above stories are OLD news. I can't see either one of the above changing the election.
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 09:58 PM
That's not nice Bryan. :)
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 10:00 PM
I'm going to bet that it is something that connects Kerry to the oil for food scandal.
Posted by: Vanyogan at October 24, 2004 10:00 PM
She had a cute face.
Posted by: Bryan at October 24, 2004 10:01 PM
Everytime I hear a guy say that is means the girl is perhaps a little on the heavy side...
That use to be one of the first questions my husbands friends ask when i wanted to set them up. :)
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 10:05 PM
Since I made the bet may as well double it. I'm going to bet that has something to do with John Deutch and Jamie Gorelick being on the board of Directors of Halliburton's Frenchmanaged competitor, Schlumberger.
Thebush campaign has been painfully silent on this and I have to believe there is something to this. In fact that is something the Clinton's may have fed the Washington Times.
Posted by: vanyogan at October 24, 2004 10:06 PM
Since I made the bet may as well double it. I'm going to bet that has something to do with John Deutch and Jamie Gorelick being on the board of Directors of Halliburton's Frenchmanaged competitor, Schlumberger.
The Bush campaign has been painfully silent on this and I have to believe there is something untoward about it. In fact that is something the Clinton's may have fed the Washington Times.
Posted by: vanyogan at October 24, 2004 10:08 PM
Kos is breaking the story... http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/24/21359/463
That is, if you believe what Kos has to say...
Posted by: BG at October 24, 2004 10:10 PM
Has anyone been looking at other blogs regarding this story? Maybe they aren't as tight-lipped as Bill, or may have given different hints...just a thought.
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 10:10 PM
I almost forget Bubba, the media is going gaga on him tomorrow. So forget NYT, WaP, or WaT stories.
Posted by: Michael at October 24, 2004 10:13 PM
It appears Red State is down
Posted by: Mr. Gower's son at October 24, 2004 10:13 PM
This is from a link at the "Battlegrounders" tab at National Review.
Sunday, October 24, 2004
For details, see Powerline or RedState.Org.
This is the sort of thing that can sway the undecideds in an election, especially since it is coming at this late date. However, I would advise against getting too excited about this thing. If it is just more of the “Kerry flip-flopping, weak on defense, not giving the straight story,” it’s not likely to have much effect. Voters are already familiar with that sort of thing. This story might reinforce those things, but t is not likely to sway many undecideds.
For it to be a bombshell, it would have to be either, (1) a story showing that Kerry is lying about an issue position that has become synonymous with his campaign, or (2) Kerry on tape saying that America was to blame for the terrorist attacks of 9/11.
Final word to all Bush supporters: Whatever the story is, don’t get complacent one iota. There is still a lot of work to be done in the next eight days.
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 10:14 PM
Sittin' here picking my nose and it hit me - it just might be UBL and Tora Bora. Notice that Bill said "dead end" about UBL. Is this a clever play on words? Kerry has just hammered the Prez constantly on this. I don't expect UBL's head on a pike but maybe something showing that Kerry was briefed that UBL was iced. Maybe this is just wishful thinking. I seem to recall that Karl Rove said recently that he had a couple of October surprises. Is this one?
Posted by: sky king at October 24, 2004 10:18 PM
Posted by: Bill from INDC at October 24, 2004 10:19 PM
This was on DU:
Joel Mowbray is going to allege that John Kerry did not meet with ALL members of the UN Security Council, as Kerry stated in a speech.
Ambassadors from several nations are going to dispute Kerry's claim that he met with all members of UN Security Council before voting to authorize use of force
Posted by: do at October 24, 2004 10:25 PM
They NY Times "stolen explosive" article is online.
Nothing big here I see.
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 10:25 PM
Well, I was beginning to think you were in hiding Bill. It is now 10:24 ET, can't u give us more info. Please?
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 10:25 PM
Ambassadors from several nations are going to dispute Kerry's claim that he met with all members of UN Security Council before voting to authorize use of force.
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 10:26 PM
The stolen explosives story is nothing, a big d'uh, notice 60-minutes in on the story as well..just to show you how desperate some elements of the MSM have become.
Posted by: Michael at October 24, 2004 10:30 PM
Kerry outsourced jobs to China for a Mass. firm in the late 90's.
Posted by: Ray Henry at October 24, 2004 10:30 PM
I really hope it's not the UN Security Council thing, cuz, honestly, nobody's gonna give a crap.
Posted by: Totally Sirius at October 24, 2004 10:31 PM
Regarding the post earlier that Drudge was going to break it tonight--does that mean he'll break it during his radio show (which runs 10pm - 1am)--anyone listen to it? If so, has he mentioned anything?
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 10:32 PM
It's the China story.
It totally fits the criteria...
Posted by: Ray Henry at October 24, 2004 10:34 PM
I'm monitoring it right now. Nothing so far.
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 10:34 PM
Sitting here listening to Drudge, haven't heard him mention it at all. Just finished a segment about Bill hitting the road for Kerry and how he always has to take center stage.
Posted by: Quist at October 24, 2004 10:36 PM
Kerry has told so many lies, about his medals and service, about his anti-war activity, about his votes in the Senate and on the Iraq war..
no one cares.. Just like they didn't care about Clinton's lies in 1992, 1996 and in the Lewinsky affair.
Honestly, there is nothing that's going to appear in the Washington Times that could have any impact on the election.
Believe me now, or believe me later.
going to bed now..
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 10:37 PM
I agree the story meets all the criteria...just visited the link--glad to see there's a picture. I think pictures always add to the story's impact. Maybe it will have an effect in Ohio b/c job loss is a big issue there and I'm sure Kerry's been hammering the outsourcing issue. Any thoughts?
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 10:38 PM
Drudge it breaking A story right now, claims it's a front page story for the WT.
It's the UN thing :-( Don't think it will go anywhere.
Posted by: quist at October 24, 2004 10:39 PM
If nobody cares about Oil for Food, they aren't going to care about whether or not Kerry met with UN security council members.
Plus, Kerry can excuse he way easily out of the whole meeting issue.
Posted by: Just Me at October 24, 2004 10:39 PM
broke by Drudge on radio...Kerry lied about the meetings
Posted by: mr_lil_rhody at October 24, 2004 10:40 PM
I'm guessing it's the not meeting with the Security Council. Bill's been telling us "cold", "wrong" on other stuff, and nary a peep on that one.
Posted by: dorkafork at October 24, 2004 10:40 PM
Yep. Drudge says it's the UN Security Council meeting that never happened. Okay, Bill, why did you string everybody along as though this was gonna be some interesting story?? Seriously, no-one is going to care AT ALL. I mean, how many ordinary folks actually know he said that, much less will care that he didn't "officially" meet with the UNSC for as long as he claimed he did??
Posted by: Totally Sirius at October 24, 2004 10:42 PM
Well Bill, is this it ???? Please tell me "no"
Posted by: Quist at October 24, 2004 10:43 PM
Kerry didn't meet the UN SC blah blah...
I bet tomorrow's story will be Bubba is back...screw WaP, WaT, and NYT..
What i am wishing tho is some sort of ugly stories on voter intimidations - violence around the polls, violence against those carrying campaign signs...have all these things on tape or someone get hurt and pin them all on the dems...this will anger the silent majority in the middle like no tomorrow.
Posted by: Michael at October 24, 2004 10:43 PM
Folks it almost doesn't matter. The mainstream media won't carry anything that will damage Kerry. Those that listen to talk radio and hit the blogs have already made up the their minds. Those that haven't made up their minds depend on being spoon fed by the old media, and we all know where the old media stands. They"ll ignore anything that may hurt kerry ,and blow out of proportion, anything they deem to be helpful to Kerry. .
Posted by: David at October 24, 2004 10:46 PM
I think it's an interesting story, but really, we didn't know that the man lies about EVERYTHING? I must admit, 1) I'm glad I didn't post to this thread before the story broke (lol), and 2) I listened to Drudge radio for the first time ever tonight.
I'm glad that some fact checking has happened, and if there was someone, somewhere really on edge and not sure how to vote (because they have no eyes, ears, or internets (lol again) connections) and they somehow see or hear this story, it might make a difference.
Posted by: Thad O at October 24, 2004 10:47 PM
Well, I still think the China thing should be looked into. Uh-oh, a preposition is not something to end a sentence with.
Posted by: Ray Henry at October 24, 2004 10:52 PM
HAH!!!!!! I was right, here is the post time last night- and hat tip to Laguna Dave on redstate site!
Posted by peapies at October 23, 2004 11:07 PM
Posted by: peapies at October 24, 2004 10:54 PM
This was all very anticlimatic...noone besides bloggers will care. I have this feeling too that the election will be anticlimatic, with on candidate winning by a clear 5-7 pts spread...anyone feel that same way?
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 10:55 PM
If this is the story, perhaps we're reacting to fast. Isn't it Mr. sKerry who has been saying he would work with all our allies? Doesn't he say that on EVERY stump speech?
UPDATE JUST OUT: per Zogby 50% to 43% Bush leading... per Drudge. Bush up 3 Florida, 5 up in Ohio...
NOW THIS IS INTERESTING!!!!
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 10:56 PM
Plus 3 in Iowa Bush leading..more coming. still Zogby
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 10:58 PM
This is not a huge story, but it's another example of how Kerry's campaign is dying a death of a thousand cuts. He can't go more than 2-3 days without having to deal with some gaffe like 'Global Test,' Mary Cheney, or Teresa's comments about the first lady. None are devastating on their own, but all added up, they've caused damage.
Posted by: Trebbers at October 24, 2004 11:00 PM
Regarding the NYT missing explosives story--I've heard speculation the Bush camp leaked it in order to press the idea of needing a "strong" leader in the White House. By personally, I think it would damage Bush--Kerry's just going to use it as evidence that we're doing a poor job in Iraq and he would have been "guarding the explosives" if he was POTUS. Thoughts?
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 11:03 PM
1. How Drudge treats it on his site....if it stays up on top for quite a while then MS will have to mention it- he drives the cycle
2. The Kerry campaign response will be the FACTOR and you know they can not crawl out of it
3. It is not the greatest thing for the KCampaign to have deal with a week before the election, not much damage control time
4. There has got to be another story/ OS on the horizon, so consider the double whammy
5. Kerry's own response will be week weasely too
6.and it looks like the story will be parter, in otherwords more than a one day story but continiouus for a few days with exclusive quotes so others in the media will be going to the foriegn officials too
7. Sure undersuts Kerry's "Bush Lied" meme he has been peddling and the WMD's
and so many more
I suspect we will here embarassed depressed commentary on Hardball soon
Posted by: peapies at October 24, 2004 11:08 PM
Drudge has the right angle - the real story that could grow legs tomorrow is the Lizzy Edwards claim - not if we win - in PA (a supporter was worrying about riots in PA)....
Posted by: Michael at October 24, 2004 11:10 PM
Posted by: peapies at October 24, 2004 11:11 PM
Bush is NOT up +7 in Zogby. He's up +2.
Zogby said in one days polling of 400 voters Bush was up +7. That's not the Zogby poll.
Zogby also has Kerry up in Colorado which would negate Ohio.
I think these are not numbers to cheer about.. yet..
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 11:12 PM
I just saw the ZarKerry interview with Katie Curic. Why do I watch such crap?
Posted by: Bryan at October 24, 2004 11:12 PM
"Drudge has the right angle - the real story that could grow legs tomorrow is the Lizzy Edwards claim - not if we win - in PA (a supporter was worrying about riots in PA)....
Posted by: peapies at October 24, 2004 11:12 PM
The KLA and Iran ties are a bigger story. I don't know why no one has covered them.
Posted by: veritas at October 24, 2004 11:13 PM
Lizzy Edwards was caught on tape (CSPAN) saying - NOT IF WE WIN -
she was answering a supporter's question - will there be riots in PA after the election?
Now, that's a story! It fits well with all the voter intimidation, violence outbreak around the country. I am telling ya, this thing is explosive. It could anger the silent middle big time and finish skerry.
Posted by: Michael at October 24, 2004 11:15 PM
Check out Free Republic. They say the Kerry Campaign took contributions from KLA terrorist group. There's a video showing Wesley Clarke and Richard Holbrooke with terrorists. This is BIG to me. It's on second page.
Posted by: Doris at October 24, 2004 11:19 PM
Craig, according to Drudge those numbers just came out. Bush is at 50% and sKerry 43%.
Drudge just reported for Zogby's new poll results.
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 11:20 PM
yes I agree...especially leggy story if drudge post the audio/video
Does daily recycler have it? I hope so
Posted by: peapies at October 24, 2004 11:20 PM
I thought it was odd as well. Is anyone else listening to Drudge right now?
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 11:21 PM
On the voter violence angle, the best person to speak out from the Bush camp is Laura Bush.
Just say it saddens her to read stories about violence in campiagn HQs, stolen signs, scary phone calls to military families and now the talk of riots if the election don't go a certain way...this is the perfect role for her to speak out, the President should stay mum on this..if the voter intimidation, violence stories go national (a lot of local stations are reporting the local incidences already), this could be the biggie...even Al Gore is talking about non-violence act down in Florida...the dems know this kind of intimidation/violence stuff could finish them off in a big way..
screw the rest of the stories from the MSM..this Lizzy Edwards stuff from druge could be the real mccoy to watch..
Posted by: Michael at October 24, 2004 11:21 PM
Here's the article that was being so HYPED.
Why everyone thought this was so top secret and couldn't be leaked early is beyond me.
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 11:22 PM
Gee, it seems like the WaTimes should have gone with the Lizzy Edwards story AND the KLA story...that pic with Clark and Holbrook would have been much more damaging than this UNSC story
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 11:22 PM
Sheesh, I hope I didn't misunderstand...
I was getting really excited since Zogby always seems to have lower numbers for Bush...
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 11:24 PM
The Zogby poll through today won't be announced until the morning.
All day our side has been touting Zogby's comment that in one day's polling, Bush was up +7, in a 3 day poll where he overall up only +2. I'm sure this is what Drudge is referring to.
I would be STUNNED if Zogby's poll went from +2 today to +7 Monday.
Here's the link on the +7 story, from Zogby.
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 11:26 PM
If the story turns out to be "Kerry didn't actually meet with the Security Council members he claimed to meet with," then I'm not even sure it's going to be worth reading on the WashTimes web site tomorrow, much less that this is something the Kerry campaign is going to have to respond to.
You ever see the Conan O'Brien sketch "Frankenstein Wastes a Minute of Our Time," in which Frankenstein's monster runs through the studio, eager to point something out, which eventually turns out to be an electrical outlet or a piece of lint on the carpet? That's what this WashTimes expose sounds like.
Posted by: Joshua at October 24, 2004 11:29 PM
The WaTi story doesn't have legs. The MSM will simply imply it was a misstatement based on meetings Kerry had with notable UN underlings.
Unfortunately or not, if the story was about a Republican then Katie would say "the buzz this morning all over the internet....", CNN would cite a report in a main stream newspaper about some startling revelation about a "unsubstantiated and unverifiable assertions" by the President, followed by pundits at MSNBC pontificating that this proves the President is a liar, ultimately topped by a crescendo of hysteria marked by the lead story on the Nightly News "President is caught in a lie". The NYT will unleash their Democratic Party operatives on the story and within 36n hours every major newspaper will have published the story front page with the NYT or WaPo byline.
No. Probably just my wild imagination.
Posted by: corndog at October 24, 2004 11:30 PM
ZOGBY IS A HACK--- He might be good for trends, but I think thats it.. Look at his senate race predictions from last year.
Posted by: Bryan at October 24, 2004 11:31 PM
I know you're right...I just can't believe that I would misunderstand (perhaps it was wishful thinking). Now I'm totally depressed.
I would feel better if someone else heard it. :( Now I feel I I'm totally lossing it, I'm hearing things! :)
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 11:33 PM
I wish Drudge would take down that stupid pic of Clinton and Sawyer and make the Lizzy Edwards story the main.
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 11:33 PM
The blogosphere did a great job on Dan Rather.
Security Council-gate was a SUPER dud.
Why was this so hyped and treated like such a bombshell no one could breathe a word? sheesh.
Posted by: Craig Nelson at October 24, 2004 11:35 PM
opps, sorry about the typo's
Posted by: sm at October 24, 2004 11:36 PM
Hah! Just had a funny thought--if this Lizzy Edwards stories gains some steam, and does damage to the Kerry/Edwards ticket, then some observers might blame the first lady/veep first lady for the loss (i.e. Terroriza's comment re: Laura's "job," and Lizzy's comment re: riots)
Posted by: LuvyaDubya at October 24, 2004 11:51 PM
We came damn close. We did great on analyzing with little to go on. Not bad for mere observers.
(BTW I do not think this issue is over yet)
Posted by: Devnulled at October 24, 2004 11:52 PM
refresh ang go on to bills new post about meetinggate...he has the vidio link to daily recycler up....heres hoping Drudge links to video
Posted by: peapies at October 24, 2004 11:55 PM
Just reviewed the video. sKerry does say the meeting in NY was with the entire SC. If the Bush campaign were to play that with the words from the WT it might have an impact on some.
Posted by: sm at October 25, 2004 12:10 AM
Drudge has the story linked.
Posted by: sm at October 25, 2004 12:15 AM
Craig, you were right.
This is what Drudge must have been reporting: It was only a one day sample.
"But Zogby notes the President has turned in a second day of strong polling.
Pollster John Zogby: "Another good single day of polling for President Bush. In today's sample alone, he leads 50% to 43% - the first time we've seen either candidate hit 50%. Each candidate continues to tighten his own constituency, and Undecided voters are now at only 4%.""
Posted by: sm at October 25, 2004 12:49 AM
Hah! I scooped Drudge!
But seriously, while I don't think this story is a blockbuster, I wouldn't denigrate it, as many seem inclined to do.
The point is not just that that Kerry lied, repeatedly, to the voters (that in itself is sort of a "dog bites man" story...). He *also* lied openly about meetings with foreign diplomats that never happened. That means they know he lied. And these are the countries that he hopes to convince to send vast numbers of troops to Iraq.
I think it will take a couple days, but eventually he'll have to respond to this. If nothing else, it makes a decent commercial for the Bush campaign. President Bush, love him or hate him, does what he says he's going to do.
So my point is, yes, perhaps the significance was over-stated, and people's expectations were unwisely raised. But I think this is not insignificant, and the last thing we should do is help Kerry bury it by pretending it is.
Posted by: LagunaDave at October 25, 2004 01:57 AM
I find this story to be yet another compelling reason why Kerry is not ready to be President.
It goes beyond the fact that he was caught in a bald lie about a contemporary matter, which this story proves he has been.
I think Captain's Quarters (Ed) has it right in his analysis: "But the reality of his paltry and meaningless diplomacy also shows what a lightweight Kerry is on the world stage." Kerry is out of his leagu, puffing up minor-league diplomacy to make it seem major league for a debate. What kind of diplomat is this clown really going to make? Not much of one, this episode seems to show.
Posted by: Alvin at October 25, 2004 04:12 AM
Most people don't even know what the SC is much less care. Evveryone knows that Zakerry is a liar, they knew Clinton was a liar and an adulterer. So what?
Posted by: Mikey at October 25, 2004 05:31 AM
One story that is coming out is the video of the KLA ( Kosovo Liberation Army) officially listed as a terrorist organiztion, handing $510,000 to Wesly Clarke in support of John Kerry.
Neocon posted above about Kerry's protesting the use of flamethrowers to Tora Bora - We have not had flamethrowers since 1971. duh
Posted by: USMC0302 at October 25, 2004 08:49 AM
Mikey, I'm still waiting to find out what the meaning of the word "is," is. :)
Posted by: sm at October 25, 2004 09:16 AM
ubu says: "2) Dividing the country this strongly makes us appear weak. It encourages the enemy to attack us more, to reinforce those who want to quit and dishearten those who want to continue." Kerry's already done that, quite successfully, back in '71 and '72, when he spoonfed an adoring press his pack of lies about our so-called failures in Viet Nam, our military, and our motives, creating such division in the country that we backed out of a war we had won, costing hundreds of thousands of lives---including American lives. It worked so well once, why not do it again?
The only thing I have to say about the new information is---Dems won't care. They've picked their guy, they've decided anyone is better than Bush, and nothing will matter to them. They didn't CHOOSE Kerry for his honesty, his integrity, or his dignity. They chose him because they thought/hoped he could beat Bush---a mindset that is proof of the power of the press, and their success in demonizing the President. We've got the Academy Awards calling Moore's packs of lies and propaganda "documentaries", which is a way of saying he has documented the truth. Seen any MSM exposes on Moore lately? Ever? We've got perky Katie and winsome Dianne furrowing their brows into cross-eyed concern when querying conservatives about their policies, telegraphing dismay at what they hear. We've got Dan Blather and the other stooges fretting over whether or not George should have taken his physical even after he knew he was not going to be flying any more, and ignoring Kerry's Ready Reserve AWOL status. We've got urgent updates on every detail of Bush's military performance---well, of whatever can be spun to the negative---without even acknowledging the oddness of Kerry not even getting his discharge until Clinton was in the White House.
The mindless masses have swallowed these determined efforts to create a false image of George W. Bush, just as they swallowed the revisionist version of Viet Nam back when that was all they heard from the MSM. And once they have bought into the Anybody But Bush rhetoric, it is an act of faith to claiam the economy is bad, we are losing in Iraq, we went in for oil, pipeline Halliburton National Guard daddy Saudis puppet Enron lesbian outsourcing blah blah blah. And once the focus is not IS KERRY AN HONEST AND CAPABLE MAN WHO CAN EFFECTIVELY LEAD THIS COUNTRY? but is KERRY IS NOT BUSH, it doesn't matter how often Kerry lies, how big a buffoon he is, how the international community really sees him, or anything else.
Look at the list of lies we already know about. Viet Nam atrocities. Christmas in Cambodia. The Magic Hat. Being under enemy fire on Dec. 2, 1968. Giant deer on Cape Cod. Never falling while skiing. Being Catholic while getting divorced and supporting abortion. Killing Viet Cong with a 50-cal machine gun though no one on his boat ever saw him fire one. Running one, two, three, or more marathons. Being anti-war/pro-war, simaltaneously. And on and on and on. And he's STILL got the support of these lemmings! Do you really think another expose of another Kerry lie is going to matter?
Posted by: Almiranta at October 25, 2004 11:57 AM
Rush just mentioned the Washington Times article on his show today. So, perhaps it will get some play.
Posted by: sm at October 25, 2004 02:42 PM
It is really interesting reading the goofy comments from you psycho conspiracy theorists.
How's about some real news, why did Bush have to do community service in Houston in 1973??? Can't wait to hear what criminal act he was atoning for!
Posted by: 1proudliberal at October 25, 2004 04:59 PM
You guys have a problem!
Posted by: geister at October 25, 2004 10:52 PM