My thanks to these men, their sacrifice, and what they've fought to protect.

The insults from John Kerry go far beyond the men directly connected to the events of the Vietnam War; they have resonance with the ancestry of everyone who defended liberty. Can anyone imagine Kerry making statements
about the sacrifice of American military men during Bunker Hill as being for the "biggest NOTHING in history"? How about the men who battled during the Tet offensive, or Omaha Beach, or in some dirty piece of the Phillipines? Nothing? Communism and oppression were prevented from spreading for years, many thousands of innocents were kept from their graves by the actions of American military and its allies. The biggest nothing was the retreat from the battle and the millions of deaths that ensued. A retreat spurred by the antics of Walter Cronkite, Jane Fonda, and John Kerry.

Dan Patterson
Winston-Salem, NC

Kerry is running on automatic in refusing AND avoiding the swiftvet situation. I would dance with glee if somehow his 'secret' military records were to be leaked. At this point I am quite willing to use any method to get the end result needed to expose this man for the atrocity he is. Kerry is not running on all cylinders.

At this point I am quite willing to use any method to get the end result

That is dangerous thinking, my friend, the same type of thinking that uses DUI accusations against Bush just prior to the last election, and the same type of thinking taht puts fake National Guard documents on 60 Minutes.

I condemn that sentiment. There's plenty of logical, correct material around to make a point.

You're right, that was irresponsible on my part to state such sentiments. I am very frustrated with the sense of seeing Kerry not reaping what he's sowed. If you wish to delete that post I agree with you.
Kerry has not contributed one thing constructive or positive in all of his political years. I can't even bring myself to say political service, because he's not served anyone but himself. Reading what he did to his first wife and how he delegitimized his own children in order to marry again, what would he do to the citizens of this country to get what he thinks is his personal gain?
I just want to see Kerry finally sow what he's reaped for the past 30 years.

The medals Kerry threw away were not his. He was all for show even then.

MSYDE:
Remember the last line in George Orwell's "1984"? They couldn't tell the Pigs from the Men." If we stoop to their levels we become Pigs too. Glad to see your not growing a snout and curly tail.

OOPS, I meant "Animal Farm", not "1984". I should not watch TV and type at the same time.

I agree with you, Bill. that there's plenty of logical material to make a point or two. The problem is that these points are not being a given a fair shot at being heard by the public who are then left to make up their own mind.

Folks, have faith. Surely the Bush-Cheney campaign team has a few facts up their sleeve for the last three weeks of this campaign.

Let them bring out the material when it is most timely, and let us quietly, calmly speak with our friends and families telling them what we know now.

I must say that I am not a fan WWF-style politics: the type that finds personal problems of candidates and exploits them. The Swift Boat ads are, therefore, somewhat troublesome to me in the larger scheme of things. But I learned as a child that you'll reap what you sow. And John Kerry has brought this upon himself. Kerry stirred up the hornets' nest when he came back from Vietnam. And not Bush or any bystander can stop the swarm once the hornets have identified their enemy. Unfortunately, despite substantive debates, this campaign will be remembered less for substance and more for Swift boat claims just like 1998 is remembered for Willie Horton.

Kerry should sign his form 180. Barring that, we can only assume. Bush describes an epiphany that changed him from an irresponsible young man into a more serious adult. When was Kerry's epiphany? What can we point to as a turning-point in Kerry's life where he changed from the man who bolted from Vietnam after getting three boo-boos and left other men to fight in his place? When did he change from the man who flew to Paris to meet with both the North Vietnamese AND the Viet Cong, but not those representing his own country (and doing this while he was IN the U.S. military, Naval Reserve)? When did he change? Why did he change? Has he ever discussed the change in his thinking? [These are rhetorical questions. We all know the answers.]

What Kerry did during his antiwar protest days was shameful.

And this bunk of what Kerry said only being him repeating what he heard at the Winter Soldier investigation, as if he were just some investigative reporter...

First, he was part of the Winter Soldier group...he even authored that horrible book "The New Soldier" giving more credit to their lies...

Second, in his testimony, he clearly is representing this group, as their advocate:
"I am here as one member of the group of one thousand [the Winter Soldier group], which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country..."

"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. "

Kerry clearly was the advocate of liars, and that makes him a liar too...

What Kerry really did was elevate the charges of the antiwar group to newfound credibility and publicity...and of course, the MSM was all too willing and happy to jump onboard and run with these accusations...

It's one thing to weigh what someone did in their youth as immature or misguided - but for Kerry to never have apologized to people like Sen McCain and Col. Day smacks of complete arrogance. Colonel Day's letter is a complete spanking, pure and simple. And there is no rational way to defend the opposing viewpoint, in my book.

If anyone wants to be President, shouldn't the country reasonably expect that anything to do with their 'public' life should be available to scrutiny? Why hasn't Kerry signed Form 180?

"While the Swift Vets deceptively imply that John Kerry made these accusations from personal recollections of atrocities"

Explain that Bill.

John Kerry is a degenerate. That's all I can say. What I really wanted to say about him would probably be deleted by Bill in about ten seconds.

Roundguy:

Kerry was "quoting" people at the Winter Soldier investigation which was the VVAW "finding" "Vietnam vets" who engaged in or witnessed "war atrocities".

Anyway, scare quotes excluded, he never claimed to have seen the more graphic examples that he quotes in his Senate 1971 testimony. He said he was getting that info from other vets. The war crimes he claims to have witnessed were the more mild accusations like "search and destroy missions", etc. Basically any tactic that is typical of military combat and involved killing NVA or Viet Cong, he labeled a war crime.

Never mind how loony that claim was and never mind that belief carried over into his opposition to Reagan's Nicaragua policies (seared, seared into his memory). Never mind that Kerry and the VVAW basically plucked up anybody they could that could appear to have been in combat in Vietnam when many weren't and never mind that Kerry supplied many of the people in it with the same fabricated stories that he would later quote of them.

It's a distinction of a sorts.

darcey,

"The medals Kerry threw away were not his. He was all for show even then.

I thought that what Kerry threw away were some of his own decorations (ribbons, technically counted under the term 'medals') as well as some others that somebody else asked him to throw away.

Lola Lee,

"I agree with you, Bill. that there's plenty of logical material to make a point or two. The problem is that these points are not being a given a fair shot at being heard by the public who are then left to make up their own mind."

Such as...? Bush is free to make all the points he wished during his campaign speeches and ads, as well as during nationally televised debates. Where do you see the problem?

Why hasn't Bush signed Form 180?

Clancy -

Why hasn't Bush signed Form 180?

He has. The D's blame the Pentagon for failing to release everything.

In contrast, Kerry has not signed off to release his records.

Bill,

Are you sure? I didn't think he had. Must have been very recent. I may be wrong, but perhaps you have a link.

I'm sorry, but where have you "vets" been for the last 25 years? Why is it that all of a sudden you've crawled out from under your rocks to slam Kerry? Do you realize how few in number you are compared to those of us who marched WITH Kerry, and how few in number you are to those who believe, right now, that the Viet Nam war was wrong, that Bush is killing our soldiers RIGHT NOW with his inability to lead (as it was with Nixon) and how duped we were with Bush's false, disproved reasons for going to war with Iraq?

Have you looked at President Bush's record in office and his record in the Guard (nice draft dodging, Bush!)

I hope Bush and the Republicans are paying you well. You will go down in history as men who festered for 25 years and then showed up to support an ignorant President who lied to the people.

Think back. If you really served in Nam, remember what it was like, and then consider our boys in Iraq, fighting a war that was poorly planned; sent there believing they were going to protect us from weapons of mass destruction and in retaliation for the 9/11 attacks. Neither was true. Where is your compassion for these young men? Have you become so bitter and calloused that you still can't see the light?

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