Gee, Kerry/Edwards?

I'll take a macaroon. =)

They missed out on a 96 yea vote?!?!?!?! How dare they not drop their presidential campaigning and rush back to DC to make it a 98 yea vote? I mean, a 96 yea vote could leave the terrorists thinking we are vulnerable to attack!!!!!!

Sad and desperate. This is what I'm talking about. Thanks INDC!

BTW, how can you complain about this, but give the prez a pass on ignoring "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Within the United States"? Does it even cross your mind how twisted the logic has to be to complain about two senators running for president to miss a 96 Yea vote, while not caring that the president couldn't call off a vacation to maybe do something about terrorists out to attack the US.

Give me a cookie too, but can I ask a very simple question ... How are these men expected to vote when they are in the middle of a presidential campaign? I realize this is an important vote, but so is the presidency.

Besides, Bush was busy clearing brush for his first 100 days in office, and he's was the damn president!

I don't know if anyone saw the Daily Show lastnight, but they showed a video of Edwards sitting directly beside Dick "Darth" Cheney on 11-Feb-01. Funny that Darth said he said he never met Edwards. Seems highly unlikley considering they were close enough to smell one anothers' breath.

Well both men managed to show up in Washington for the vote on Conner's law, so if the issue is important to them, they can make the effort. I am surprised they didn't show up for this one though, a yea vote would have fit nicely on their presidential ticket resume.

I think the Saddam playing poker with Iran can explain a lot of the problems with intelligience reports, and it actually makes sense, also with Saddam's intention of getting the sanctions ended so he could get back into the WMD business almost makes him scarier and makes me think the war worth fighting.

I would much rather have fought the war now, with Saddam still playing poker with Iran, than later.

I followed the link and read the post (first one) - and it was indeed good reading. I disagree with the final judgement that Saddam was still such a threat that we needed to invade...do we now invade anyone who wants to gain WMD's? Also, the post itself seemed to focus on interview material that indicated the main focus of Saddam's WMD dreams were related to Iran and not the US.

Also, how do you reconcile the fact that the report so damaging to the French/Russians/Chinese in the Oil for Food program had American names listed on it as well...but those were blacked out for 'security purposes'?

Tommy-

Umm, you don't see how it would be important for them to do their job? They are still collecting a salary, yes? Shouldn't they SHOW UP FOR WORK?!?

I could understand it if they missed a few days now and then, but these two have missed rougly 80% of Senate votes for the last two years. That's a problem.

Anon Scientist-

Yeah, Cheney told a fib there, but it had great impact, didn't it?

Edwards also told a few, like continually stating that Bush/Cheney were lieing when they said that Saddam was involved with 9/11 (Which they never said, but it had great impact, didn't it?)

Most people don't bother to do the fact checking afterward.

Oo...Oo...I know, I know!

Senators Kerry and Edwards!

Now what kind of cookie do I get? A tracking cookie from click.com or advertising.com?

So A.S. do you remember every non-entity you sat next to in the past three years and eight months? Why didn't Edwards pick up on it and start a new rondelez of, Liar, liar, Pants on Fire.

The exact same thing happened with the Senate vote on the Federal Marriage Amendment.

"Also, how do you reconcile the fact that the report so damaging to the French/Russians/Chinese in the Oil for Food program had American names listed on it as well...but those were blacked out for 'security purposes'? "

Not sure why the US company's aren't named, but I think they should be, but I wonder if it is because there may be investigations in the works or something-I suspect and I hope that those names will be release soon though.

Anthony: I realize they both lied. They're politicians - it's expected. But I thought it was rather funny, that's all.

Give me a cookie too, but can I ask a very simple question ... How are these men expected to vote when they are in the middle of a presidential campaign? I realize this is an important vote, but so is the presidency.

Even if you don't think that their actual vote was important, candidates typically make time for votes that carry such drastic political implications.

I happen to think that this tidbit, along with Kerry's previous record on National Security issues and Edwards' disinterest in the Senate Intelligence Committee bolsters the assertion taht they aren't qualified leaders in the WOT.

"do you remember every non-entity you sat next to in the past three years and eight months"

erp: I don't think this is really worth debating. To me it's rather obvious that this was a fabrication meant to elicit an ooh and aah from the home audience.

But then again, the knife cuts both ways on this. Perhaps Edwards saw Cheney as such a non-entity that he forgot as well?

Bill: I wanted to bring this up before, but I forgot. I heard that Cheney stretched the truth a bit when he said that he's there just about every Tuesday. I heard the number is more like 2 times since 2003? Do you know the official number on this? How frequent does Darth show up on the Death Star? I haven't fact-checked (FCed) it yet.

So the Senate is now known as The Death Star...

wait...wait... daschle hasn't lost yet.....

Silly, everybody knows that Karl Rove is Darth Vader. This is from randomroot.blogspot.com:

Star, Enquirer, Dan Rather & Washinton Post: Space Aliens Will Invade if Bush Re-Elected
Space Aliens for Democracy, organized as an intergalactic 527 under provisions of McCain-Feingold, threatened yesterday to invade the planet Earth if George W. Bush is re-elected, according to various mainstream media outlets. The News Anchor Formerly Known as the Queen of the Space Unicorns, CBS's Dan Rather, would not reveal his source for the story, but pajamabloggers posing as 'journalists' believe that the source is in fact warrior-god Kobaltine IV. Representatives for Kobaltine IV could not be reached for comment.

Meanwhile Democratic National Committee chairhuman Terry McAuliffe voiced skepticism, saying that should the story explode in the face of CBS, it will almost certainly have been cooked up by Republican operative Lord Gnarl, with whom he famously quarrelled during an interview in 1988, when Rather tried to get Gnarl to admit that he'd personally ordered the deforestation of Rygi-El 9. A spokesman for Karl Rove said that he was unavailable for comment, as construction of the Dark Star was not proceeding as quickly as they had hoped, and Rove had been asked by Vice President Dick Cheney personally to get construction back on track.

The Point is Senator Gone, and Senator Truant hardly show up for anything.

They are nothing more than SINO's (Senators in name Only)

And I would say there is good money that this is brought up in the Town hall meeting debate...

It's their RECORD, which the dems continue to attempt to diminish...

I'll even concede it isn't critical that they showed up for this vote.

But the facts are they don't give a rip about their constituents, they only care about themselves.

They don't have a substantial record in the senate because they hardly bother to show up for work.

What would happen in your job if you failed to show up for 77% of the time, or after an Annual review (WTC Attack #1), you failed to show up for a FULL YEAR...

Like Donald Trump says:

Senator Gone and Senator Truant....You're Fired...

Regards,
Sonar5

I was wondering why Edwards didn't challenge Cheney on the "I never met you before" crack.

Perhaps Cheney wasn't knowingly saying that--as it appears that both of them couldn't remember the occasion.

Sonar5: I can't wait for Darth Cheney to choke someone without laying a hand on them! I was pretty sure he was going to do it to Gwen Ifill the other night.

Can't excuse Kerry and Edwards for missing the vote in lieu of campaigning. Traditionally senators resigned (Bob Dole) to campaign so their responsiblities to represent their states were fulfilled.

A.S.,

I don't know the exact record, but I did read the DU/moonbat thread on it. They were slicing and dicing the Senate President record which shows Cheney as the acting President of the Senate only twice. I didn't dare point out to them that very rarely does any VP actually preside over the Senate, even when they are present for the precedings. Unlike Bill, I just don't have the courage to stare-down the moonbats.

Sonar5: I can't wait for Darth Cheney to choke someone without laying a hand on them! I was pretty sure he was going to do it to Gwen Ifill the other night.

The force can have a dramatic effect on the weak-minded.

I would guess that Ifill is not weak-minded. John "The Hair" Edwards on the other hand...

[quote]I was wondering why Edwards didn't challenge Cheney on the "I never met you before" crack. [/quote]

I figure he wasn't thinking fast enough on his feet. He seemed slow the whole night, hence his repeated efforts to go back and answer previous questions, before answering the present question.

He just probably didn't have a response, and towards the end of the debate, he didn't have long enough to think up an answer to go back to.

Also, I kind of agree that Cheney's point wasn't that they had never been in the same room together, but that he hadn't seen him in the senate, and he didn't have much of a presence there-but said in a way that presents a good soundbite.

gm...

What Bob Dole did took Character.

Senator Gone & Senator Truant are sadly missing those Character traits that would compel such integrity.

Tommy Pain:

>>>>"Bin Laden Determined to Attack Within the United States"

You must already know this was a memo based historical information (not to mention that it merely restated the obvious: hello? 1993 WTC bombing? Embassies?) so at best you're being disingenuous. And Bush DID do something about it that Clinton never had: ask his advisers to come up with a plan to "destroy" Al Qaeda.

Ok, the theoretical penalty, lost wages, does not deter and could no deteer these partcular truants. Can we devise one that would?

I'd like to propose Lieutenant Senators, serving, by lot, for one week each. In the event of a vote they could pop in from the gallery and insert a random variable in Senator Palpatine's empty copybook.

Some of you need to be reminded of why we have not elected Senators to Presidency in a Long, Long, time....

Senator Gone & Senator Truant run from their record but their record will continue to come out day by day until they ar edefeated on November 2, 2004.

Regards,
Sonar5

Does anyone know where we can find statistics on attendance records for ALL senators and representatives?

I just did a Google search and wasn't able to come up with anything useful.

It's my understanding that it is not uncommon for our elected officials to skip votes, particularly when assured of the outcome, or when on the campaign trail.

I'm not excusing this behavior, but I don't think there should be a different standard for Kerry-Edwards than for other senators.

Yes, you could say that presidential candidates should be held to a higher standard, but presidential candidates need to be on the campaign trail, too. How much of Bush's recent work has been done from the campaign trail rather than the Oval Office?

Megan -

Your position is certainly reasonable, but another dimension to this is the angle of political perception, which should compel them to show up. And if I'm correct, John Kerry has the day off today.

Meagan,

Were there some pretty close votes in the senate where Senator Gone and Senator Truant may have made a difference?

I remember hearing of at least one. Maybe people can find that out instead, the close votes, that is.

But it's not just votes, they barely showed up for committee meetings either, over 77% missed.

Think about that 77% of the time they blew off their job, and still took home their paycheck.

Anyone that doesn't feel that is just wrong has some setrious issues.

Regards,
Sonar5

Hate to interupt the whole absentee debate. But I am curious as to whether anybody else has a feeling that this piece of legislature is a bad idea.

This is my take on the situation:
1. 9/11 happened because of flaws in intelligence.
2. The flaws were caused because two agencies weren't communicating with each other (CIA, FBI).
3. They weren't communicating because they are part of a bureaucracy, and each agency was protecting its own turf.
4. This is a standard flaw with every bureaucracy.
5. The governments solution is to create a national intelligence director, a counterterrorism center and other agencies.
6. This is in effect adding to the layers of bureaucracy.

Conclusion: The systemic problem was developed by the bureaucracy, therefore the solution is to increase the bureaucracy?!

>Think about that 77% of the time they
>blew off their job, and still took
>home their paycheck.

>Anyone that doesn't feel that is just
>wrong has some setrious issues.

'Course it's wrong. But my question is, could this criticism be leveled at many other senators as well? If so, singling out Kerry and Edwards just to reap political points is kinda cheap, same as Michael Moore criticizing Bush's vacation time.

I am genuinely curious about this, so if anyone has any links please let me know.

"I'll give you a cookie if you can guess who those two Senators are ..."

Gee, like I would have to even think about it.

Sonar5 "This is my take on the situation:"

Good points, but it's my contention that sans mind reading FBI agents we wouldn't have been able to stop the 9/11 attacks. Not that we couldn't have stopped *one particular attack* but because w.o dealing with it at the source we couldn't have stopped ALL attacks and one was bound to slip through eventually.

As long as Al Qaeda had a safe haven in Afghanistan to train agents and plot attacks they were going to keep trying until they accomplished their goal, of killing thousands of Americans all at once. If we weren't willing to invade (and there wasn't much interest in that, even on the right) they were just going to keep trying until something worked. They had no shortage of warm bodies and wealthy sheiks willing to underwrite them; something was bound to get through.

Jeez, and people (lefties) complain about the military being overpaid and underworked. It wouldn't take anywhere near their absentee rate for my commander to remove me from the government payroll.

I just watched (for the 100th time) Bush's short meeting in the garden after his "visit" with the 9/11 commission. If you can watch it, and not feel like he is being evasive and smug, then you have a problem. First off, they had to negotiate with the president for months to get him to speak, he only agreed to do it if Emperor Cheney could tag along, they were not under oath (which means they could lie if they pleased), and the session could not be recorded or relased to the public. Isn't anyone interested in what was said? Isn't our right to know? His administration has practiced cover up from the beginning, and this is one event among many where they let us down. He never wanted this commission because he was afraid that he would some day need to account for his whereabouts while terrorist were walking around in our streets.

You can talk about absenteeism all you want regarding Kerry and Edwards, but you first need to tell me what the president was up to for his first 100 days. He sure as hell was not doing much in the way of governing, and you all know that! I suppose we should have named him President Gone?

Getting a bit tired of the new 'Cheney lied about knowing Edwards' meme. It dovetails nicely into the moonbat world of Bushitler and Darth Cheney but it's no more a lie than the other hysterias those folks like so much. That's a world where the only rhetorical license belongs to the left, every shade of grey becomes black when a republican touches it and white when Kedwards nuances it.

Cheney was using rhetorical license to make a point. If rhetorical license equates to lying, both the Senate and House should shut down and both presidential candiates be jailed. I have no doubt Cheney knew he'd met Edwards by memory or by assumption if he could not recall it. If you take his 'lie' in the context of the answer he was giving instead of pulling it out to be examined in isolation, what he was implying is clear and the overall point he was making conceptually true.

Which brings me to my second point. Edwards and Kerry do not perform the tasks they are paid for. Bob Dole did in 1996 and when the campaign took too much of his time to continue to do so he gave his notice. Edwards could not be reelected in any case, but Kerry will still be a Senator if and hopefully when he loses. He would not risk even that on this race much less the risk of taking and holding a clear position he'd have to defend.

Bush on the other hand does. He still runs the executive office, is still briefed daily, is still the active and involved commander in chief, and is still doing his job.

BTW: To the poster up thread - photo ops of Bush clearing brush on vacation and or weekends does not support the Atriette talking point that he spent his first 100 days in office clearing brush. You are not using rhetorical license either given that the rest of your statement does not even flow from it much less relate to it. The rest of your statement is a conceptually separate Atriette talking point. You are either a liar or a gullible fool.

Gullible fool it seems.

Don't these people who talk about "100 days' vacation" understand that the President is never really on vacation? It's not like he can set his out-of-office e-mail reply and change his voicemail to say "I'm not here, if it can't wait call somebody else."

Apparently GWB can run for office AND do his job - unlike Kedwards.

Just Passing Thru: Why don't you just keep going? And while you are are moving along, maybe you should do a quick Google search for Bush's first 100 days. It makes nice reading for on the toilet -- very quick read!

BTW - I changed my mind, if you would bother to read my previous post. Cheney is the Emperor, Rove is Darth, Bush is C3PO.

"Conclusion: The systemic problem was developed by the bureaucracy, therefore the solution is to increase the bureaucracy?!"

I actually agree with this in many ways. I think the solution to our intelligience woes isn't creating more bureaucracy, but in better developing the guys in the field and recruiting more muslim/arab speaking and reading agents.

I think any time you make something too top heavy, it gets worse, our education system is a great example of this.

'Just Passing Thru: Why don't you just keep going?'

It's Bill's joint. Bill asks me never to darken his door again and I'll comply. He asks me to ignore moonbat talking point bullshit and I'll comply. I usually do anyway. But it ain't your joint.

Drop the 'Bush 100 day hiatus, clearing brush, not at work, out to lunch, drunk, cracked up, or whatever projection of the day occurs to you' as a defense for Kedwards. Look at their behavior in terms of what they themselves do, not the behavior of others. That's how adults judge personal behavior. Or at least choose a comparable measure like another person running for office rather than apply some distorted prism made up of moonbat memes about their opponents.

Blah, dammit! Blah blah blah!! Everyone sucks! Faaaaatherrrrrrrrr!! Why don't you love meeeeeeeeee??

Sincerely,

Way Off Bass,

aka "Lookin' for Some Kobe Bryant Notoriety Without All of That Anal Rape/Colorado Justice System Wonkette Bait So Instead I'll Just Settle For Getting Blocked from INDC Journal Because Lord Knows I Need SOMEthing to Gimme a Little 'Bad Boy' Mojo What With All That Damn Romantic Poetry I Keep Posting on My Friggin' Political Blog Kinda Puttin' the Stink of Lilacs and Spring Showers on Things and Making Me Feel Remarkably Self-Conscious When I Post Comments On Serious Blogs Because I Start Thinkin' 'Oh, man, someone's gonna read my stuff and think I'm a Damn Chantin' Robert Bly Bongo Beatin' Pooftah And, You Know, I Just Worry About That Sometimes"

aka "Or Maybe I'm Just Bored"

aka "Known to Take a Joke and Beat It Til It's Dead, Resurrected, Dead Again, Resurrected One More Time, And Dead Yet Again but Thankfully for the Last Time"

Of course, the fact that I commented in the wrong post may be far more indicative than my poetry of why I have so very few readers.

Cheers!

"That's how adults judge personal behavior."

Thanks Dad.

The discussion started with a question as to why Kerry and Edwards weren't available for a 96-2 vote. First, it was a 96-2 vote -- I'm sure they were well aware that their votes would not even matter. I'm sure they weighed it out by asking, "which is more important - the upcoming debates and the presidency, or a vote that won't matter." Hard choice, eh? This is what I call making a smart decision which is also a behavior we adults find admirable.

For those of you who ask "why not resign from their positions?" Hmmm. Think about it for a minute, I'm sure the answer will come to you.

JPT: Questioning the whereabouts of Kerry and Edwards is silly. Just like it's silly to question the whereabouts of the president while he's on the campaign trail. But, it's not silly to question what the president does during their first 100 days. It's been done with nearly every president we've ever had. It's not a tradition I made up. The concensus at the time was that Bush was largely absent from his post - believe it or not.

There is no such consensus outside the ranks of people who need to believe it for their own reasons. The first 100 days in office is that getting your feet wet time. Getting your administration up and running. The 100 day report card is the first 30 day review in the private sector. What you get when you google is spin from people who can't see that it was 25 years of bad policy that led to the great issues of today and that Bush's first 100 days was not the problem.

I'll also give Bush the same benefit of distraction in his first 100 days as you give Kerry and Edwards now. With Kerry and Edwards, it's the campaign the last 100 days. With Bush, it was assaults on his credibility as president after Gore's attempt to suborn the election.

All beside the point. The thread is not really about a single 96-2 vote. It is about doing the job you're paid for. It's about a pattern of years of missing votes. You're not about to look at the senate truancy as behavior that should be judged on it's own merits. You initially tried and are continuing to try to counter that with projecting Bush's first 100 days in office as some kind of counterpoint. That's a dead give away that you can't defend the truancy.

"I'll also give Bush the same benefit of distraction in his first 100 days as you give Kerry and Edwards now. With Kerry and Edwards, it's the campaign the last 100 days."

And this is where I would like to conclude. You have summed up the whole discussion for me.

Megan,

Take a look here for info on member votes: http://thomas.loc.gov/home/votes/member.html

The short version is that the information is freely available, but not compiled in that sort of format (vote by member cross-reference).

HTH...

Kerry's and Edwards' truency problems go back a lot further than 100 days. There's no comparison between the job Bush did in his first 100 days and the last 100 for Kerry and Edwards so it's not quite summed up. Still, we'll leave it at that as you suggest.

Heck, they couldn't even be bothered to show up and meet the man they'd likely be working with in Iraq once they took power. Given their history of abscence in the senate one is left to wonder who'd bee running the country if they are elected. Carville?

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