Praise Jesus! I can see!

Since I cringe when profanity/obscenity is intertwined in this kind of forum, I prefer to use "cranial/colorectal juxtapositioning" for this condition. Hearing is supposed to improve, also, when one repositions oneself.

Enjoy your site and keep 'em coming.

Charlie

Okay, I'll confess. I'm what others refer to as the big L word. At one point in my life I drove a car with a Nuke A Baby Seal for Christ bumpersticker. I was young, what can I say? I am also (gasp!) supporting the big John's this go round.

Rathergate did, I admit, draw me into the world of political blogs. What I want to say, is your recent post has done what Democratic Underground and various others have failed to do - illicit me to respond. Thank you for your comments, and I'm sure its the hope of many that a civil discussion can exist in an annonymous universe - even on a cite focusing on one side or the other. Or, more to the point, especially on a cite devoted to one side or the other.

And humor - damn how absent is it in the current climate? I thought the windsurfing attack ad was hillarious! (I also thought it somewhat cool that a Presidential candidate knows how to windsurf!)

Just wanted to say that I appreciate and respect the ground rules you laid out, and think it shows an administrator that wants a civil and productive conversation. If only the lib labs and extreme Christians could take the same tone.

FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON FUCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA

I suspect that the post by F*UCK BUSH FASCIST GOP HALLIBURTON is the kind of post you would like to avoid? I know you use Movable Type for your forum -- do they provide an option for membership before posting? It drastically reduces some peoples' willingness to be involved, but then again, you will avoid the random troll.

It's kind of sad that a post asking for civility among commenters motivates at least one person to post the exact opposite to show defiance, and that vulgar comment actually gets the seal of approval by the next commenter.

Anonymous -

Sure, but I believe that "F Bush Fascist GOP Halliburton" was kidding, so is awright.

Moveable Type has comment registration for their newer software, but I'm not ready to go that route yet.

Generally means the initial poster and the commenter are the same person, or that the commenter was directed to the idiocy by the initial poster. As, for instance, Stephen Green's expose of a troll with a metric bevy of monikers at Vodkapundit (from yesterday).

oh I see the "f*ck bush" troll tags here, too. Appears it must need a glass navel.

sad little life it must lead

Bill, kudos from the leftcoast ;-) I enjoy the site, including most of the contrarian commentators.

Bill...save yourself the trouble of the tortured, nuanced explanation of your ideology....just call yourself a Neolibertarian. That's what you are.

Get used to it. :)

"Hearing is supposed to improve, also, when one repositions oneself."

Charlie: I think I will use your quote sometime today. It's good.

The Anonymous Scientist is left of center if you haven't guessed. But, to classify me as completely liberal is a mistake. I'm mostly liberal on social issues. I don't think we need a constitutional amendment to keep gays from marriage, but then again, I don't believe that gays should be getting married either (I've been married and divorce, it's not worth it!) I'm more centered on foreign issues. I believe that we should cut off Saddam's head in front of the world. However, I believe that we need to maintain a positive image on the world stage -- in as much as this is possible -- with our allies.

I've been considering writing an online quiz of sorts. The concept is to give people a clearer idea of where they stand politically. It should consist of about 100 questions. Each weighted question will add or subtract from your final number. The final number will place you in a range:

Uber-Liberal | Liberal | Mod Liberal | Moderate | Mod Conservative | Conservative | Uber-Conservative

These classifications will apply to social, economic, foreign, domestic, etc. issues.

Any suggestions on how to make an unbiased test? A list of questions (serious questions) would be a good way to start.

Wouldn't that lead to cut and paste voters? I am X,Y,Z ... therefore I am Mod Liberal ... cut ... Candidate A is X,Y,Z ... therefore Mod Liberal ... paste. What about single issue voters? Or, one issue carrying more weight than another? And, one other thought before I go to a gruelling boring day at work, isn't that a sad commentary that voters need help in defining themselves politically?

Yes/No questionnaire that gives a profile.

Anti-Idiotarian Y/N
KOS Y/N
Andrew Sullivan Y/N
Noam Chomsky Y/N
Christopher Hitchens
(pre-2001) Y/N
Christopher Hitchens
(post-2001) Y/N

& etc.

I guess my point is that many people, if asked, would not know the political jargon to say "I am this, or I am that". I don't wish to label anyone as a means of division, I just want people to become more aware of jargon.

The liberals are calling themselves progressives now, which summons less of the archetypical images of Jane Fonda, tie dye, and Kusinich's bus.

How about the latest UN Oil-for-Scandals news?

Not just Oil-for-Palaces...

Not just Oil-for-Bribing-France-&-Russia...

No, now it's...

OIL-FOR-FREAKING-WMDs!!!

Unbelievable.

I kind of like the approach of Teresa Nielsen Hayden (with whom I agree about nothing else) - she removes all the vowels of offending comments. Call it disemvoweling.

Wow, Bill, I'm surprised how similar our views are politically: moderate on social issues, committed libertarian, ultrahawkish on defense.

Now, if we can just get all the poor politically misguided souls out there to join us on the true path of wisdom toward a brighter future...

"...isn't that a sad commentary that voters need help in defining themselves politically?"

CubsFan7: Yes, it's sad commentary indeed. Our ability to communicate and disseminate information has grown exponentially in the past 20 years, but somehow people are becoming more and more stupid. I don't believe that most people bother to read anymore -- I think they sit tacitly in front of the TV every night and wait for the evening news to tell them what to think. I have this working theory that the internet and mass communication will eventually make people more stupid. Let me explain...

When I was in school -- grade school, high school, and college -- if I wanted to know something I was forced to go to the library or crack open one of the volumes of encyclopedias sitting around the house. Now, if I want to learn something, I Google it. I am presented with hundreds and sometimes millions of of pointed answers to my query - within seconds (the quality varies). The major difference between these two exercises is this: with the internet there is not a tactile experience of flipping pages and scanning. The tactile experience leads us to sometimes discover things unexpectedly. I call it mixed-sense learning. Combine tactile, visual, and smell (I love the smell of books) -- and you have the perfect environment for learning.

The internet strips all of this away. I feel myself becoming dumber as I type this. Oh crap!

Bill,

Again, thanks for a great site. Always in the top 5 of the sites I hit on a daily basis.

I've found that if you lay out the ground rules most will abide by them. Thanks for yours.

Now, get your bitch-ass back in the kitchen and bake me some pie!

X's and O's...

Jane

Unfortunately for them I think it's a bad choice. Hardcore communist took over the label progressive in the 30's to cover up the fact they were, well, communist.(and being kicked out of unions, trade groups, ect..)Their head was so far up they went inside out.

Thanks for posting this information. I am new to this business of “blogging” - and probably do not fit the definition? - and not at all sure of proper etiquette. And I generally like the way you describe your political philosophy. Additionally, I think the direction the Republican Party is moving mostly matches what you describe. I think the idea of social conservatism is dated – and generally being choked off even though the Demos still love to use the charge that Jim Crow is standing on your doorstep and beside him is the lady with a coat hanger just in case you need an abortion. I completely agree with your policy on the need for civility in political exchange and find it appalling that it is lacking not only among anonymous bloggers but also among presidential candidates. I am absolutely flabbergasted at the way a sitting President can be charged repeatedly with being a LIAR when in fact what the charge at most should be described as his having used poor judgment. This repetition of our having a liar as a president has done enormous damage to the reputation and interests of the USA abroad and will be a problem for whomever is elected president in November. There is a-heck-of-a-lot more prewar evidence supporting the notion of WMD than there is evidence to support the charge that the Bush Administration intentionally lied on this issue. Anyway, I appreciate your comments regarding proper postings and generally enjoy your site.

Anon Sci.
One problem I see with your quiz is that it is only one dimensional. By that I mean it only has one axis (as on a graph.) Personally I'm in favor of gun ownership, which would tend to make me conservative, but I'm also pro drug legalization, which tends to make me look liberal. Those can't wash out to put me in the center. The Libertarian Party's "World's Smallest Political Quiz" at least has two axes. My suggestion is to go in that direction.

Anon,

I remember a quiz a couple of years ago.

I'll see if I can dig it up... BRB... And then I will also comment on the topic..

Ok Found it. It is Politicall Compass, pretty elaborate...

Take the test, and see what category you really fall into, well at least their opinion.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Anyone want to guess where I will fall in. And BTW - You will be wrong.

Have Fun,
Sonar5

FYI - I just got this in my inbox:

Dear Voter:

I am a senior citizen. During the Clinton Administration I had an extremely good and well paying job. I took numerous vacations and had several vacation homes. Since President Bush took office, I have watched my entire life change for the worse.

I lost my job.
I lost my two sons in that terrible Iraqi War.
I lost my homes.
I lost my health insurance.
As a matter of fact I lost virtually everything and became homeless.

And now they won't even let me vote in the election!

Adding insult to injury, when the authorities found me living like an animal, instead of helping me, they arrested me.

I will do anything that Senator Kerry wants to insure that a Democrat is back in the White House come next year. Bush has to go.

I just thought all Americans would like to know how one senior citizen views the Bush Administration.

Thank you for taking time to read my letter.

Sincerely,

Saddam Hussein

Robert: I hoped to add the dimension of Liberal to Conservative on multiple issues -- that's what I see as the third dimension. Then I want to have an analysis that considers your position in each issue.

For example:

UL | L | ML | M | MC | C | UC
Issue1 X
Issue2 X
Issue3 X
Issue4 X

This represents someone slightly to the left. Basically a Moderate Liberal. I'm just wondering whether these are the proper classifiers, and what the major idenfying issues are. Then I can begin to formulate questions that will "rank" you for each issue.

This is a really geeky thing, but I enjoy geeky pursuits.

I just realize that the spaces didn't translate in my graph...

--------UL-|-L-|-ML-|-M-|-MC-|-C-|-UC-
Issue1-------X
Issue2-----------X
Issue3----------------X
Issue4-----------X

"Now comment away and play nice. Just make sure that you pull your head out of your ass before you do - I hear that it'll help you see better."

Mrph wah doo za glork.

*Pop*

Whoa, that does help!

Nice way to put it, Bill.

A very interesting discussion on "labels" in politics. I guess the older you get the more you realize it's the DEFINITION of labels that change.

When I was 18 and looking at the prospect of being drafted, I considered myself a moderate liberal. If drafted, I would have gone but I opposed the war on the grounds that there was no way to win which made it a horrible waste.
After I got my first job some of my opinions of the welfare state changed as a direct result of withholding.

The point is...you can hold to pretty much the same beliefs throughout your life while the politics change. There are no more Scoop Jackson Democrats or Rockefeller Republicans. I believe that you, Bill, are what we used to call a Kennedy (John) Democrat. Kennedy was not beloved by the unions nor management while he managed to upset most hawks and discomfit liberals at the same time. I think of myself along those lines (except for the war) and consider myself center-right.

Sonar5: I can't really guess where you lie. I took the test from Political Compass

My compass:
Economic Left/Right: -2.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.90

According to this site, I'm about the same as Nader (he can kiss my ass) and the Dalai Lama.

So what are yo Sonar5?

Anon Sci, that does look better. A new thought, I wonder if instead of using terms such as liberal & conservative, use terms like "favor government intervention" and "personal responsibility". E.g. regarding retirement (such as social security) do you favor g.i. or feel that p.r. is paramount? Same with abortion, should government intervene (basically limiting it) or should it be left to the individual?

"I guess the older you get the more you realize it's the DEFINITION of labels that change."

superhawk: You are correct. Just as we change, so do politics and the world. What worked yesterday may not work today, even if indicators show that they should. It's not an exact science, I realize. But as my name implies -- I look at things from a scientific POV. In the end the labels mean nothing -- they are just indicators of tendencies. But, they would certainly help me to understand the nature of some peoples' comments I see here, and the decisions they make.

Anon,

Here is Mine:

My Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: +.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: +1.23

Regards,
Joe

Welcome to "popular blogger" country, Bill. I've had to post a comment policy on my modest blog.

When Bill says "Play nice with each other, he means play NICE"...Heh, Heh! Now for a bit of wisdom from 1 over 50 YOA..."Believe NONE of what you hear, and only 1/2 of what you SEE"...an old truism I learned b4 my teen years. As a long time Elec Tech/Comp Tech, I tend to be a LOGIC oriented person-and my research ability made me good at my job. These traits help on the internet, when 1 searches for truth-so I applaud Bill, and say to his readers, "Go thou and do likewise"-but remember that truism...Pietr, Retired AF and a Texan...

RE the Political Compass test (and speaking as a charter member of the Southeast Quadrant Defense League), it really does prove that while a mono-axial ranking is absurd, a bi-axial ranking isn't much better. I could think of 6 axes just off the top of my head, and more than that is probably really necessary to start pinning people down in meaningful groups. Plus the dadgummed test was too Anglo-centric.

Bill,
This being from the REAL Pete, I am flattered to by quoted by you (the head out of your ass comment for those who missed it). I was shocked though to see my name hijacked by another poster today. Actually, I was jealous that it was NOT actually me. Is hijacking someones identity against the rules here too?

the "real" Pete

"mono-axial ranking is absurd, a bi-axial ranking isn't much better"

Mike C: This was really my first thoughts on this. I'm trying to quantify something that may be unquantifiable. I was just soliciting opinions on this, and not really suggesting that it's possible. I enjoy programming, so I tend to think (sometimes incorrectly) that I can mimic any human characteristic through code. It's getting there, but not quite yet.

Thanks to Sonar5 for posting the political compass link. I'd categorized myself for awile now as a "conservative Moderate". Pretty much confirmed that, as it looks like I'm "Center Right". But I reserve the right to change my position moment-to-moment based on ongoing new life experiences. :)

My Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 5.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.10

fuck you you fat ignorant piece of shit! i think th...Oh! sorry, Bill, i thought i was still on Michael Moore's site. please dont ban me. thanks

Hey moehawk? If you are working on getting banned from sites go back to the Michale Moore site and post this. ;-)
Moore Film Draws Thin Audience
http://www.times.spb.ru/archive/times/1007/top/t_13679.htm
Read it in the St Petersburg times last week while I was in Russia and looked up the online version. MY favourite lines are: The premiere at Dom Kino in St. Petersburg showed to a half-empty theater while an early showing Thursday at one Moscow theater drew a feeble four people.

Russia's rich tradition of "agit-prop" cinema seems to have left today's filmgoers cold, with a film addressing contemporary political issues struggling to find an audience.

"I fell asleep halfway through," a user named Slava wrote on Kino.ru. "It is ordinary 'black PR' for zombified people who can't think on their own."

Took that test twice varied between
+/- 0.5 on the Libertarian axis
and +6 to +6.5 on the economic

IF, as election-year e-mail goes, your letter is a keeper.

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